transgendering the kids

Yes they do but that is why we consider the overall population of bolts than just a few.

 

1) That was way after you kept bringing up the same question again and again - nobody else had talked about it.

2) I understand what he said as "more prone to crime than someone born as a woman" (which would make sense, because men do commit a lot more crimes than women).

Your quote does not support you constantly arguing against a straw man you invented in your head - that someone would have said that men transitioning to women commit more crimes than other men. Not a single person said that.

You also left out the rest of his post - WHO CARES. Nobody other than you. You keep arguing against yourself.

 

The quote speaks to itself and in the rest of it he doesn't specify that trans women are just more criminally prone than biological women but that they should be treated like men by the criminal justice system. Which I think there is a fair argument for.
Notice @JumpMan has continue to debate the issue.

As for who cares apparently you do care since you seem to be getting worked up about it.

 

I just find it super weird that you keep putting up this strawman and then you argue with yourself. Nobody else actually said what you are arguing against. Not a single person, including @JumpMan.

 

NGL, any drive that involves genital manipulation of minors will sound cultish.

Even the kind that slices off pieces of foreskin, usually without the recipient's knowledge or consent from when they're babies or teens.

These are all cultural/societal issues that tech or science can not unravel for us.

For instance, the restroom debate is still touchy as it's understandable for women to be in the presence of a woman with junk down there. But is it a safety issue or more a societal issue predicated on well defined taboos? Maybe that trans woman identifies as lesbian, creepy right? Yet biological lesbian females get a pass?

The debate then was overreactionary because the other side tried portraying it as opening the floodgates for perverts to invade the sanctum of your wives, mothers and sisters.

Beyond gender, if you are a criminal or a sexual deviant, then a simple rule change won't change the drive for that behavior.

We have done better towards handling or accepting trans in public to some extent, mostly in the last 5 years. I'll still bring up 90s movies like Silence or Crying Game because it caricaturized trans as perverts and deviants and was accepted as the norm. Even Ace Ventura, which I'd probably still enjoy if I ever watch it again.

I wouldn't claim current feelings are progressive, given the common accusations of grooming or pedophilia as tangents when the subject is focused around LGBT. That'll take more time than the life cycle of a few twitter threads for society to digest.

 

I agree with what the data says. Men act like men whether or not they identify as men or not. Women act like women whether they identify as women or not. That's fine. That is also interesting to me.

I disagree with your stance on crime and men and women, though. Overall stance, not just what I quoted. Men and women are equally messed up. We're all wicked, but we all react differently to our issues. When men get emotional, angry, and hateful, they resort to violence; when women get emotional, angry, and hateful, they don't. Of course that's not always the case, but in general it is. What women do is equally wrong and could be even more damaging than what men do. It's just not usually against the law.

I'm not used to them or not used to them. They're there. I see that they're there and I disagree with what I see.




@rocketsjudoka, I'm not arguing that point. All I did was guess before I knew of any data, and then I accepted what the data states. I didn't care one way or the other. The only reason I put in my two cents in this thread was that I disagreed with law enforcement making it important to refer to the accused as a woman because that would mean he serves his time with women. The best way to handle dudes like him is to put him in with the men. That was the only point I actually cared to make.

 

This is so messed up.

Same as with that Dr Pan guy on Twitter and his bill that Newsom signed. It's blatantly open censorship. That Dr Pan guy even spends all day hiding tweets which disagree with him (and that's 99 % of them). Crazy.

 

That post is being misconstrued. What they are asking for is to stop going after individual physicians who are receiving death threats and being harassed.

 

The bathroom debate always bothered me because it only looks at one side. You can't tell me some guy isn't going to freak out if a person with short hair and a full beard , who has a vagina, goes into a women's restroom.

 

Which means they did it before. Which is something posters here disputed.

 

Like clockwork…
It’s not happening
Prove it’s happening
OK, so maybe it is happening but it’s just a tiny small minority (and don’t represent the majority)
It’s happening and it’s a good thing it’s happening you bigot!

-Alphabet mafia (whether it’s the drag shows, sexually explicit books in school libraries, mutilating kids, etc.)

 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-care/

The National Institutes of Health, the U.S. government agency responsible for medical and public health research, told Reuters that “the evidence is limited on whether these treatments pose short- or long-term health risks for transgender and other gender-diverse adolescents.” The NIH has funded a comprehensive study to examine mental health and other outcomes for about 400 transgender youths treated at four U.S. children’s hospitals. However, long-term results are years away and may not address concerns such as fertility or cognitive development.

121,882: U.S. children ages 6 to 17 diagnosed with gender dysphoria from 2017 through 2021
17,683: U.S. children starting on puberty blockers or hormones over the five-year period

Reliable national data on how many children receive care for gender dysphoria – defined as a feeling of distress from identifying as a gender different from the one assigned at birth – have long been unavailable. To get some idea of the increasing prevalence of these cases, Reuters asked health technology company Komodo Health Inc to analyze its database of U.S. insurance claims and other medical records on about 330 million Americans. The analysis, the first of its kind, found that at least 121,882 children ages 6 to 17 were diagnosed with gender dysphoria in the five years to the end of 2021. More than 42,000 of those children were diagnosed just last year, up 70% from 2020.

The number of children who started on puberty-blockers or hormones totaled 17,683 over the five-year period, rising from 2,394 in 2017 to 5,063 in 2021, according to the analysis. These numbers are probably a significant undercount since they don’t include children whose records did not specify a gender dysphoria diagnosis or whose treatment wasn’t covered by insurance.

[…]

A growing number of gender-care professionals say that in the rush to meet surging demand, too many of their peers are pushing too many families to pursue treatment for their children before they undergo the comprehensive assessments recommended in professional guidelines.

Such assessments are crucial, these medical professionals say, because as the number of pediatric patients has surged, so has the number of those whose main source of distress may not be persistent gender dysphoria. Some could be gender fluid, with a gender identity that changes over time. Some may have mental health problems that complicate their cases. For these children, some practitioners say, medical treatment may pose unnecessary risks when counseling or other nonmedical interventions would be the better choice.

“I’m afraid what we’re getting are false positives and we’ve subjected them to irreversible physical changes,” said Dr Erica Anderson, a clinical psychologist who previously worked at the University of California San Francisco’s gender clinic. “These errors in judgment are fodder for the naysayers – the people who want to eradicate this care.” Anderson, a transgender woman who still treats children with gender dysphoria in her private practice, resigned as president of WPATH’s U.S. chapter last year after her public comments about “sloppy” care prompted the organization to issue a temporary moratorium on board members speaking to the press.

In Europe, concern that too many children might be unnecessarily put at risk has prompted countries like Finland and Sweden that were early to embrace gender care for children to now limit access to care. The United Kingdom is shutting down its main clinic for children’s gender care and overhauling the system after an independent review found that some staff felt “pressure to adopt an unquestioning affirmative approach.”

[…]

More recently, though, many of the patients flooding into clinics wouldn’t meet Dutch researchers’ criteria. Some have significant psychiatric problems, including depression, anxiety and eating disorders. Some have expressed feelings of gender dysphoria relatively late, around the onset of puberty or after, according to published studies, gender specialists and clinic directors. Such cases require more extensive evaluation to rule out other possible causes of the patient’s distress.

And for reasons not understood, a disproportionate number are patients assigned female at birth. In the NIH study of children’s treatment outcomes now under way, minors designated female at birth made up 61% of enrollees. The gender clinic at Children’s Wisconsin hospital in Milwaukee said 65% of its patients were assigned female at birth. Some researchers and clinics say transgender females are less likely to seek treatment because they face greater social stigma for doing so. Critics of children’s gender care blame peer pressure, reinforced by social media, for boosting the number of transgender males seeking care.

Dr Annelou de Vries, a specialist in child and adolescent psychiatry, is one of the Dutch researchers whose early work established the importance of rigorous patient assessments before starting medical treatment. She said that while she worries about the growing number of children awaiting treatment, the graver sin is to move too fast when puberty blockers and hormones may not be appropriate.

“The existential ethical dilemma in transgender care is between on one hand the (child’s) right for self-determination,” de Vries said. “On the other hand, the do-not-harm principle of medical intervention. Aren’t we intervening medically in a developing body where we don’t know the results of those interventions?” In the United States, in particular, she said, “the transgender right or child’s right seems to be put forward more strongly.” De Vries helped write the section on adolescents in WPATH’s updated Standards of Care. She said she was gratified that language stressing the importance of rigorous patient assessments remained.

In interviews with Reuters, doctors and other staff at 18 gender clinics across the country described their processes for evaluating patients. None described anything like the months-long assessments de Vries and her colleagues adopted in their research.

At most of the clinics, a team of professionals – typically a social worker, a psychologist and a doctor specializing in adolescent medicine or endocrinology – initially meets with the parents and child for two hours or more to get to know the family, their medical history and their goals for treatment. They also discuss the benefits and risks of treatment options. Seven of the clinics said that if they don’t see any red flags and the child and parents are in agreement, they are comfortable prescribing puberty blockers or hormones based on the first visit, depending on the age of the child.

 

[…]

Reuters interviewed parents of 39 minors who had sought gender-affirming care. Parents of 28 of those children said they felt pressured or rushed to proceed with treatment.

Kate, a 53-year-old mother in New Jersey, said she and her husband were shocked in November 2020 when their 13-year-old told them he was transgender. The child, assigned female at birth, had always played with other girls and had never expressly identified as a boy. They just thought their child was a “tomboy.” Now, they learned, he had chosen a male name and wanted to start puberty blockers and get breast-removal surgery.

After an initial one-on-one consultation of little more than an hour with the teen, a psychiatrist said he was a good candidate for puberty blockers, Kate said. An endocrinologist recommended the same after talking with the family for 15 minutes. Kate and her husband also attended a parents’ support group organized by a local gender therapist. Through it all, Kate said, “the message was, let your kid drive the bus. Wherever they lead you, that’s what you should do.”

Kate, who asked that only her first name be used to protect her child’s identity, had read up on puberty blockers. Concerned about their off-label use and possible side effects, she wouldn’t agree to treatment. She supports her son’s social transition, using his preferred pronouns and buying the tape he uses to bind his breasts. But she thinks he is too young to make decisions about life-altering medical treatments.

“Children, when they are 13 or 14, are sometimes totally different people from when they are 18 or 19,” she said. As a result of her decision, her relationship with her son has been “fractured,” Kate said. If he chooses to pursue medical transition after he turns 18, she said, she and her husband won’t be happy, but they won’t stand in the way, either.

[…]

Experts in gender care say more specific research is needed to determine whether medically transitioning as a minor reduces suicidal thoughts and suicides compared with those who socially transition or wait before starting treatment.

Some gender-care professionals complain that suicide risk is too often used to pressure and even frighten parents into consenting to treatment. “I think it’s irresponsible for clinicians to do that,” said Anderson, the former president of WPATH’s U.S. chapter. “As a clinical psychologist, I don’t do a suicide assessment by membership in a class. The level of risk varies tremendously across individuals.”

De Vries, the Dutch researcher, told Reuters there is no evidence that “providing care immediately leads to a decline in self harm or would prevent suicide.”

[…]

Reuters found 72 adverse event reports submitted to the FDA from 2013 through 2021 of children on puberty blockers who showed suicidal, self-injurious, or depressive behavior. The children were taking the drug for central precocious puberty or gender dysphoria or were simply identified as under 18.

Dr Brad Miller, division director of pediatric endocrinology at the University of Minnesota Medical School and M Health Masonic Children’s Hospital, expressed surprise at the number of adverse event reports Reuters found. He said he was particularly concerned because doctors prescribe puberty blockers for transgender children, who are already at higher risk of mental health problems.

Miller and several other doctors told Reuters they had repeatedly asked AbbVie, Endo and other makers of puberty blockers to seek FDA approval for the drugs in treating gender dysphoria in children and to conduct clinical trials to establish the drugs’ safety for such use. They said the companies always declined. “They would say it would cost a lot of money to get approval,” Miller said. “And they were not interested in going there because (transgender treatment) was a political hot potato.”

AbbVie declined to comment for this article. An Endo spokeswoman said the company has no plans to seek regulatory approval for the use of its drug for any new indications. The company did not respond to requests for further comment for this article.

[…]

Some scientists and doctors also say they wonder about possible neurological effects of puberty blockers. The question: Hormones released during puberty play a major role in brain development, so when puberty is suppressed, can that result in reduced cognitive function, such as problem solving and decision making?

Dr John Strang, research director of the gender development program at Children’s National Hospital in Washington, D.C., and other researchers wrote in a 2020 paper that “pubertal suppression may prevent key aspects of development during a sensitive period of brain organization.”

Strang said at the time that “we need high-quality research to understand the impacts of this treatment – impacts which may be positive in some ways and potentially negative in others.” He declined to comment on whether he was pursuing such research or funding for it.

[…]

Many doctors acknowledge that long-term hormone therapy may reduce fertility, and they say children who receive puberty blockers followed by hormones run the highest risk. But with no definitive science to rely on, doctors often leave the question open when talking to children and their parents.

[…]

Number of patients treated annually at the Doernbecher Children's Hospital gender clinic at Oregon Health & Science University in Portland

2013: 16
2014: 42
2015: 86
2016: 150
2017: 248
2018: 347
2019: 462
2020: 632
2021: 724
Source: Doernbecher Children's Hospital gender clinic

[…]

Some patients who receive treatments like Ryace’s eventually decide to undergo “bottom surgery.” For transgender girls, the procedure, called vaginoplasty with penile inversion, involves the creation of a vagina and vulva from the patient’s penis and scrotum. Sometimes, the testicles are removed, too. The surgery is irreversible, expensive, and can result in serious complications that require follow-up procedures.

The authors of WPATH’s new standards considered advising that genital surgery generally not be performed until at least age 17, but ultimately they made no age-related recommendations. The Endocrine Society puts it at 18.

Genital surgeries performed on minors are rare, but surgeons say interest is growing. The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries, including vaginoplasty and other procedures, among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. That doesn’t include surgeries not covered by insurance. In a 2017 research article that surveyed 20 WPATH-affiliated U.S. surgeons, the doctors said there had been “a definite increase in the number of minors” requesting information about vaginoplasty or being referred for surgery by their mental health providers.

Complications from genital surgeries are common. A California study found that a quarter of 869 vaginoplasty patients, with a mean age of 39, had a surgical complication so severe that they had to be hospitalized again. Among those patients, 44% needed additional surgery to address the complication, which included bleeding and bowel injuries.

For adolescents transitioning to female, puberty blockers and hormones can complicate eventual genital surgery. That’s because the medications can stunt development of the male genitalia from which a vagina and vulva are constructed. In 2020, de Vries and other Dutch researchers urged clinicians to inform transgender youth and their parents about this risk when starting puberty blockers.

Bowers, the new WPATH president and a transgender woman, said she has worried that some patients who begin puberty blockers at a young age won’t ever be able to have an orgasm because they never experienced one prior to pausing puberty, regardless of whether they have surgery. She said ongoing research has allayed many of her concerns, and “it seems not only probable but likely there is retention of orgasmic function.” She said she has encouraged doctors to talk about this risk with adolescents before they start medication.

 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/

New diagnoses in the United States of patients ages 6-17
2017: 15,172
2018: 18,321
2019: 21,375
2020: 24,847
2021: 42,167

In 2021, about 42,000 children and teens across the United States received a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, nearly triple the number in 2017, according to data Komodo compiled for Reuters. Gender dysphoria is defined as the distress caused by a discrepancy between a person’s gender identity and the one assigned to them at birth.

Overall, the analysis found that at least 121,882 children ages 6 to 17 were diagnosed with gender dysphoria from 2017 through 2021. Reuters found similar trends when it requested state-level data on diagnoses among children covered by Medicaid, the public insurance program for lower-income families.



Puberty blockers U.S. patients ages 6-17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis initiating puberty blocker treatment
2017: 633
2018: 759
2019: 897
2020: 1,101
2021: 1,390

Over the last five years, there were at least 4,780 adolescents who started on puberty blockers and had a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis.

This tally and others in the Komodo analysis are likely an undercount because they didn’t include treatment that wasn’t covered by insurance and were limited to pediatric patients with a gender dysphoria diagnosis. Practitioners may not log this diagnosis when prescribing treatment.

Hormone therapy U.S. patients ages 6-17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis initiating hormone treatment
2017: 1,905
2018: 2,391
2019: 3,036
2020: 3,163
2021: 4,231

At least 14,726 minors started hormone treatment with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2017 through 2021, according to the Komodo analysis.

Top surgeries U.S. patients ages 13-17 undergoing mastectomy with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis
2019: 238
2020: 256
2021: 282

The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.

A note on the data

Komodo’s analysis draws on full or partial health insurance claims for about 330 million U.S. patients over the five years from 2017 to 2021, including patients covered by private health plans and public insurance like Medicaid. The data include roughly 40 million patients annually, ages 6 through 17, and comprise health insurance claims that document diagnoses and procedures administered by U.S. clinicians and facilities.

To determine the number of new patients who initiated puberty blockers or hormones, or who received an initial dysphoria diagnosis, Komodo looked back at least one year prior in each patient’s record. For the surgery data, Komodo counted multiple procedures on a single day as one procedure.

For the analysis of pediatric patients initiating puberty blockers or hormones, Komodo searched for patients with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis. Patients with a diagnosis of central precocious puberty were removed. A total of 17,683 patients, ages 6 through 17, with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis initiated either puberty blockers or hormones or both during the five-year period. Of these, 4,780 patients had initiated puberty blockers and 14,726 patients had initiated hormone treatment.