i agree with your general idea that all these rookies need to prove themselves but you're way too harsh on them. calling boki a "dud" as of now isn't fair. i guess shaq was a "dud" before playing his first game? doesn't make sense but both were/are unproven for sure. true the praise might get carried away but this is a rocket's fan board. remember that part. anyways my main point was that rudy in no way "reached" by selecting him.
Buck Johnson was the starting small forward for several years and on many play off teams. Maybe he was not an all star but he was far from a dud. Prove Boki is a dud. You can't because you have yet to see him in a game situation. He is just potential for now but from what we have to go on, his potential is very exciting. If you want to piss all over that give then give it your best shot because I will continue to be exited about Boki as long as he continues his good play.
What the hell are you talking about? Are you saying that when your team drafts an unproven player with potential you can't get excited about it until he proves it in games? Give me a break. There are Rockets fans on this site...Rockets fans are going to be excited about good prospects that the Rockets acquire...it's called being a fan. Sure, Nachbar might not end up being as good as some Rockets fans hope, but that doesn't mean they should treat him like he's a bust before they even see what he can do. I understand where you're coming from, in that we shouldn't be already declaring Nachbar an All-Star, but to suggest that we shouldn't be excited is completely asinine. However, I can perfectly understand how a Non-Rockets fan might not feel that same excitement. ohh..and excuse me Dr. Jack Ramsay.
If potential means jack, you shouldn't be concerned about who got drafted by who in what order. GMs and coaches should just close their eyes and point their fingers on the list and pick whoever the fingers point to randomly. If potential means jack, you shouldn't be posting (and reading, for that matter) here anything until the season starts.
Notice the contridiction of these two statements? First, you state players can become duds, then label Boki a dud before he has a chance to become one.
Hey, stop quoting the guys I have on ignore. It defeats the purpose. Clutch, thanks for the coverage.
<blockquote><hr>Originally posted by Rashmon Hey, stop quoting the guys I have on ignore. It defeats the purpose. Clutch, thanks for the coverage. <hr></blockQUOTE>I feel for ya, man.
I just like the fact that Boki seems to be being let into the inner circle, getting into a friendly yet competitive shooting match with the Franchise. Think Stevie would take the time to have a shoot-out with Tierre? Chemistry is going to be a major factor in the success of this team. Some of the reports and quotes coming out of camp are great first steps.
Okay, NewYorker, so your official position is that until a rookie plays at least a few NBA games and proves anything, they are a dud and should not be discussed because it means nothing. Now that we are aware of your position, you have absolutely no reason to come into threads like this and interrupt discussions. Just leave the rookie discussions up to those of us who are not hell-bent on pessimism.
Comparing Boki to Langhi is apples to oranges, Boki has been playing pro ball already and was the man on his team (along with Tyus Edney). Boki is not your typical rook out of college, he knows that he is playing for money and has played on championship teams. I feel pretty confident that game time will be showtime for Boki.
I think Rudy and CD have been exceptional in a strong Majority of their personell decisions. To bring up Turkcan, Rhodes, Collier and Drew is not looking at the greater picture. With Turkcan, Rudy saw the coming Euro game and Turkcan truly was a great one in Europe it just never translated to the American game like a Stojakavic or Nowitzki's did. Now YEARS later everyone loves Euros, Rudy saw this earlier than most. At that time we had Pippen, Olajuwon and Barkley in their older years, we needed to WIN NOW. All three, Dickerson, Drew and Turkcan were experienced playoff contenders from the NCAA and Europe, respectively and gave us the best chance of competing for another Championship. Collier, was a trade that allowed us to get Griffin, and we even traded Dickerson from that 99 draft to get Francis. We missed the playoffs three times yet today we have a number one pick in the draft, and two others that very well could have been and are looking to be the best in their respective classes. Rudy and CD also made trades for 3 Hall of Famers to keep us competetive long after we wouldn't have been. Bringing Drexler, for championship #2, Barkley who helped us get past Seattle, and Pippen, who at the time looked as if he would bring more rings to Houston. Yes there have been some questionable picks.....like Robert Horry, Sam Cassell and Yao Ming. But with those odds and ability to bring in Talent, I'd put my gloves in Rudy and CD's corner anyday.
Apparently you missed the Langhi hype after he was drafted. Here's just a tad of what was said about Langhi: Langhi tore it up for the Rockets in workouts, absolutely shooting the lights out. >sentence deleted for the benefit of crash5179< Langhi was the SEC Player of the Year last season, averaging over 22 points per game for Vandy, also connecting on over 40% of his trifectas and nearly 48% from the field. He also hit 87% from the charity stripe. He can score. In bunches. Said South Carolina coach Eddie Fogler, "The best way to stop Langhi is to pray." Sounds alot like what we're hearing about Boki doesn't it? Okie, I'm not saying Boki will be another Langhi because as you said he has pro experience(albeit Euro pro), however his speed and defense have been questioned. Also, he didn't play "the man" minutes on his Euro team(25mpg). Don't get me wrong, it's great to hear him competing hard with the vets in training camp so far. I really don't think he'll be a bust like Langhi, but I'm also not going to believe the hype until I see it.
There is a big difference between "SEC Player of the year" and playing with grown men in a pro league since you were 15. I don't buy into the hype of either player (I liked it when the Rockets pick Najera) hype is BS after you have drafted or traded for a player. What I am trying to say is their background is totaly different. And check the stats on Boki, only one player on his team played more minutes during the regular season than Boki (about 20 seconds per game more to be exact).
I never heard anyone compare Boki to Bullard. Something else to remember is that Danny boy was a second round pick in a very week draft while Boki was a #15 pick in a very strong draft. Those are fairly big differences in what scouts and teams think of their abilities.
It's a shame Nachbar had the hernia surgery (which he seems to be getting over). I think if we'd seen him in the summer league many of our questions about him would have been a least partially answered. I remember the Langhi hype. He appeared to have the potential to be a Bull on steroids, lol. But Dan stopped himself. He couldn't make the college to pro transition because of brain-lock when he got in a game and an apparent inability to play a role as a minor cog in the team until he earned his time with good play (which he never did). Bostjan strikes me as a whole other critter. From what I've heard, the European League(s) teams don't give anyone but the most senior players what we would call major minutes. It's not entirely based on performance and ability like it is here. So the younger players wait for their time. Which is why you've got major talent with relatively few minutes. And why NBA teams are following these younger players and snapping them up in the draft before they get to be major Euro stars signed to major contracts. What I saw of his play on video and read about didn't make me think there were questions about his speed. His D, sure. That question comes with every Euro player. But Nachbar looks to be very fast indeed. Especially for someone his size. He's been playing over there shooting with hands in his face. Boki has to prove he can do it in games here, of course, so the jury is out. But this juror no longer has an open mind. My verdict is that Boki busts out this season. It may take awhile, but I believe he will. My opinion as a fan based on what I know. (mostly info gotten from Clutch and this site's sources) He ain't gonna be a dud.
Well, look, there's nothing wrong with discussing boki and how he's doing in camp, but all these proclamations that he's going to be rookie of the year is just ridiculous. The comparisons to Shaq are hilarious. This guy was taken at 15...do you know how many guys taken at 15 end up making it in the NBA? Occasionaly you get a star, sometimes you get a Robert Horry type player, but more often then not you get a Roderick Rhodes or Byrce Drew. Boki isn't going to get PT this year unless the Rockets suck. So he's a bench warmer. Eddie Griffen was a number 7 pick, and notice how much PT he got the first half of the season, and he got his opportunites due to injury. With KT and Rice ahead of him, Boki isn't going to do much save for play in practice, and don't be surprised if he gets shelved on the IR. That's just the most likely scenario, why that offends you people so much is beyond me. Except a healthy does of reality, it may do you some good so you won't be dissappointed later.
What good play? Shooting drills in practice? That's the best Clutch could come up with? C'mon. He's done nothing yet that should make anyone think this guy will get more then 10 minutes of playing time in the first 10 games.
Let's take this a point at a time. All these? A few people mentioned the possibility that Boki MIGHT be good enough to make a run at ROY. That is NOT out of the realm of possibility, as players that were drafted low have won ROY before. Just because it is unlikely doesn't mean we can't hope. I would say that the majority of the time, the player a team picks at 15 will be in the league for around 7-8 years. I wouldn't call that a Roderick Rhodes type player. Doing a quick, cursory look back at the last 10 drafts or so seems to back that up. Sure, you have guys like Jason Collier (who I predict will be gone after this season)...but you also have guys like Steve Nash, Brent Barry, Eric Piatkowski, Anthony Peeler, Kelvin Cato (who, despite his overpriced contract, is a decent backup center in this league) and Matt Harpring. Most of these guys perform a role on their respective teams, and Nash is one of the best PGs in the league. I don't think it is terribly unrealistic for people to think that a player like Nachbar has a good shot to be a good role player small forward. Eddie Griffin (please spell the names correctly) did indeed get more minutes because of injuries. But you completely ignore the age and relative experience of the players we are discussing here. Griffin was 19 coming into the league, something like the 5th youngest player in the league, and he had only one season of non-highschool basketball. Nachbar is older, and has been playing competitive basketball for a good deal longer than Griffin was. Nachbar will be coming into the league much more prepared to make an impact than Griffin did. KT would be playing SF for the first time regularly, so it is not a position he is used to, or one at which he has "proven" anything. Rice is coming off a serious injury, and is aging. I think it unlikely he can take a full season of averaging over 30 minutes a game, so that leaves plenty of room open for Nachbar to prove himself. To suggest that he will be put on the IR is ridiculous. Look at the players on the Rockets. For the 12 spots on the active roster, you have Yao Ming, Kelvin Cato, Jason Collier, Mo Taylor, Eddie Griffin, Kenny Thomas, Glen Rice, Bostjan Nachbar, Terrence Morris, Cuttino Mobley, Tito Maddux, Steve Francis, Moochie Norris, Tierre Brown. That's 14 guys, so two will have to go to the IR. If Tito Maddux can't prove that he can play SG, then he won't have much of a role on a team that already has 3 PGs. If he proves himself a better 3rd string PG than Tierre Brown, then Brown will likely be on the IR. Okay, so that leaves one player that must go on the IR. I would put my money on Collier MUCH sooner than Nachbar. Collier is injury prone, and he sucks. Reports and rumors coming out of camp have him on the bubble (same with Terrence Morris, but for the sake of this discussion, let's assume Morris will be on the team). Even if Nachbar is started out on the IR instead of Collier, the minute anyone gets a serious injury, THEY go on the IR, and Nachbar comes off. I will be VERY surprised if he is put on the IR. I don't find any of your scenarios likely at all. Perhaps that is what "offends" people. It looks to me like you are looking for excuses to be pessimistic so that, if the worst case scenario happens, you won't be disappointed. Excuse us if we don't share your bleak view of things...perhaps my own little dose of reality to you will do you some good.
What makes you sure Mickeal and Torres won't be in the hunt? I think it would be more valuable to have Mickeal, Tito and Torres active. Tierre would be a third point guard. He won't stay on the IR though, somebody will want to snatch him. I think Collier and TMo are on the bubble already. Collier especially because MT and EG can slide over to the 5 at times. The new "IR" is three players isn't it?
