You could put anyone on the other team's best player and use that same argument in their defense and it wouldn't mean anything if they continually got lit up. Shane Battier is this year's Jimmy Jackson. You love him to death. He plays the game the right way, is a professional, spreads the floor, but you need to trade him to take the next step. This isn't anything against Battier - I love having him on the team. But he is a luxury this team cannot afford and he has the highest trade value of any player that is not untouchable. At the beginning of the season, I thought it was crucial to keep him because we had loaded up on scorers and needed some unselfish glue guys to keep the balance. Unfortunately, this turned out to be a bit overly optimistic as the collection of Scola, Francis, James, and Wells have not been as reliable and explosive as previously projected. The team needs to trade Shane Battier for a shooting guard. Tracy McGrady plays his best at the small forward position and we are at our best when T-Mac is at his best. Look at what happened when they traded for David Wesley and removed Jackson.
When Dunleavy and Maggette had that dispute last year I think we could have snagged him in a Wells + Spanoulis based deal. Lets trade problem-for-problem kind of thing. Too bad that didn't work out. Maggette would give us our only consistent attacker along with bringing some physicality, explosiveness, post play, and rebounds. Would make a great 3rd piece.
Maggette gets injured too frequently. Battier's true value is obscurred by the "nice guy" factor and a league awash in talented SF-SG types. Compound that with the following dynamic...quality teams almost "there" aren't likely to break up a successful rotation to obtain him and re-building (imploding...think Knicks or even Kings) teams likely don't see him in their long-term plans. Very depressing. After 90 minutes of genuinely deep thought, I can't think of a single trade I would do, that Morey would do, that another team would reasonably consider. IMHO, any trade during the current season would require some element of risk...and Morey is just not going to do that. Not unless Adelman has an epiphany that the team needs even more speed and athletes to make his offense successful. So far, there's barely a whiff of that motion. Not starting Hayes at the beginning of the 2nd half vs GSW was as close as it's gotten. Ugh...reality bites.
just like he said, every player has his natural peaks and valleys... dont forget the first game, Rox vs. Lakers, his 3 points...
I think we should try to get Shane some open looks early in the game. It seems like with this offense, Tmac and others have room to drive in the lane but the three point shooters are being defended closer than last year. When the penetrator dishes it to Shane or Rafer they don't seem as wide open as last year especially Shane. I wish we could somehow have Shane at the opposite side of the floor when Yao is posting and try to get him a couple of open looks. If he knocks down that shot early it will open up a lot of things throughout the game. I would like for him to post up a little more too just to show the defense another dimension. These are things Adelman and his staff need to work on to get everyone involved in every game. Tmac has been doubled and tripled off of pick and rolls at time and Yao of course always has two or three around him. We need to exploit defenses when they do this.
Good! We would have one more guy to take random shots along with T-mac. We would lose a guy who cares little about his own statistics as long as the team moves on and who commits himself every night to defending the opponents' shooting weapon, be him Kobe or Lebron.
IF you were to trade Battier, you would need to find a team that has too many shot creators and needs a spot up shooter like Atlanta, Charlotte, Denver or the Lakers. Of course, you probably would get in return an athletic player who can create their own shot and attacks the basket but one who can't shoot the 3 very well.
the fact is: we have PLENTY of offense on this team as is. just because we add another scorer doesn't mean we get better. chemistry wins over talent (see stromile swift). what we need is more chemistry. swapping players isn't the answer at this point.
Very good thread Kwame. I don't start new threads very often so it's nice to see someone post something that's been on my mind. I've been following Maggette for a number of years now, and I'm always puzzled why a guy like him never got All-Star considerations. And frankly, everytime here on the BBS we talk about the need for a third scorer, I wonder why Maggette's name is rarely brought up. He doesn't make all that much money, he's a dynamic athlete; can shoot a little bit, can definitely drive and he puts the D in all kinds of trouble with his ability to draw and convert foul shots. Seeing him go off in the second half of the Clips game really made me wonder what if we had him on this team. I forgot what exactly went on between him and Coach Dunleavy, but at some point awhile back, they were on the verge of moving him. I just wondered why why why management didn't swoop in and get him. Realistically, this is a viable trade. But our chances of getting him depends on how long Elton Brand will be out. If Brand has a chance of coming back in April next year, I don't see the Clips trading him. Maggette and Kaman are carrying the Clips right now. I think they'd likely hold on to him to try and make the 8th seed just in time for Brand to come back. If Brand is out the whole season, then MAYBE we can get him. A package of Shane and Luther/James probably works. They desperately need a PG, and someone who can put points on the board. And in Shane they get a good professional who doesn't complain. Though that way, they'd be taking on additional contracts and I'm not sure if they wanna do that. Alternatively, Corey for Shane straight up would work too if I'm not wrong. If Brand's definitely out for the season, they might wanna do that to get out of Maggette's contract and tank the season for a high draft pick to retool for the next season. Heck, Mike James and Bonzi for Corey would likely work too. They get an expiring in Bonzi, and a PG in James. Both of them can score too. So that'd be a good fit. But I digress. Battier's been really up and down this year. I thought he had a good positive impact in JVG's system last year. But in Adelman's system, you need guys who can shoot off picks and on the move, and Shane just doesn't do that. He's an excellent set shooter, but a below average shooter of picks at best. While his D is still valuable, IMO he's next to zero on the offensive end, which is a huge disappointment coming from someone who's averaged solid numbers as a role player his entire career. He might bounce back yet, but the signs aren't encouraging. The few times I've seen him hoist a shot up when he doesn't have time to plan his feet firmly, it hasn't been encouraging.
Instead of looking at it as a personell problem and roster issue. Why not be patient and let the players pick up the new offensive system (Which is hardly anywhere near the optimal level we want to win games). It's a long process, if we bring in new players, the likelihood they will struggle is the same or larger under a new offensive system, does that mean we package that player and continue the repetition of the trading process until there is nothing more to complain about as a fan? This team has good players, just give them some time before you choose to discard them so easily. Battier in comparison is a younger version of Bruce Bowen, however unlike the Spurs, the Rockets have Battier usually as their third best player on the floor while Bowen is usually 5th/6th. Battier is definately a championship caliber role player, he doesnt require touches but he does need to knock down that corner pocket 3 that his been missing alot this season. That being said, I believe once RA's offensive system gets going, Battier's role on the offense will steadily increase. Let's just be patient before giving up on players, especially a top role player like Battier. _ Laby
I have to disagree on this. Both Bowen and Battier are All-Defensive players (yes, I consider it a travesty that Battier isn't in the second team at least), but Battier is definitely not a younger Bowen by any stretch. Man to man, Bowen is a far superior defender than Battier. The height difference is negligible, but Bowen is longer and possibly quicker on his feet. Battier is the better player. He has a better jumper, blocks more shots and gets more steals. You can argue that Battier is the better team defender, as he gets more charges taken, but Bowen does his part in the defensive scheme by forcing his players to go where he wants them to go, often that means funneling them down the baseline to a waiting Tim Duncan at the rim. But since both players' roles on their teams are to hit the open 3 and be the defensive specialist, Bowen beats Battier hands down. Battier gets beat by quick guards due to his lack of athleticism, but Bowen's great man-defense allows him to guard anyone from 1-3 and some 4s. For your first point, IMO, Battier's problem goes beyond just being unfamiliar with the offense. He is an excellent stand-still shooter, but other than that and the wide-open drive to the basket, and the post-up hook shot, he doesn't give you anything else on the offensive end. The few times he's tried to shoot coming off screens, it hasn't been pretty. When his feet aren't set, his shots hasn't been pretty. The problems lies in that Adelman's offense doesn't favour static shooting as much as JVG's does. Thus Battier won't have that many opportunities to just camp out at the corners and hit 4/5 3s like he did so many times last year. And even from the corners, his shots just looked off most of the time. I don't know what he did this summer, but it sure looked as if he hasn't been practising his shots.
It was speculated in the offseason that Portland was offering Jarrett Jack and Martell Webster/Travis Outlaw for Battier. That's the type of offer I could realistically see for Battier.
thank you. spoken like a rare rational person on a board full of brainwashed clueless homers. who gives a **** if he guards their best player? he sucks at defending them. quick thinking he's bruce bowen or can even breathe the same air as bruce bowen. he's above average at drawing charges and sucks at every single other aspect of basketball. shane battier is a worthelss joke. deal with it.
last year it was on espn insider that the clippers were trying to push him off on the rockets. they wanted head and battier for him last year. everyone on here ripped me for showing this. everyone was in love with head and battier but like i told you all before this is what i do i scout players for a jr. college. never ever liked what i saw from head and battier is a player who should come off of the bench not your starter. we will never win anything with battier as our starter. now if you could pull maggette for maybe mike james, bonzi, head, rafer asston.(not all of them just some kind of combination) would be great. that way you keep battier and let him come from the bench.(highly unlikley we can keep battier)
Here are some trades the other team likely wouldn't do, but are interesting to think about anyway! #1 Houston Trades: Battier, Alston, Head Clippers Trade: Maggette, Cassel #2 Houston Trades: Battier, Head Atlanta Trades: Josh Smith, Speedy Claxton #3 Houston Trades: Battier, Head Sacramento Trades: Artest #4 Houston Trades: Battier, Alston, Head, Wells, Snyder Washington Trades: Jamison, Draft Pick
