Go t4651965!!!! Don't let them trade my BOKI! He's the man! I'm on the Boki Bandwagon, even before he's made his name! You watch, the first time he dunks on someone he's going to get a bandwagon! Wanna Join the BBC!? Besides, I'd have to change my sig!
Memphis isn't taking Mobley because they have Dickerson. He is hurt but due back this season. With the length of Mobley's contract they're not going to take him.
One man's garbage is another man's treasure. West might be down on him just because he doesn't fit his team. I've heard that Battier is on the block mainly because his minutes are shrinking and they have someone ready to take his starting spot. There have been numerous times that one GM hasn't liked a player, and another GM took a chance and that player blossomed.
Ming is barely playing. He is a shot-blocker, you don't block 4 shots a game in any league and not be a shot-blocker. I mean Ming is only scoring about 4 or 5 ppg, doesn't mean he isn't a scorer. He is grabbing about 3 rpg, doesn't mean he isn't a rebounder. I'm willing to bet that Ming is a prolific shot-blocker by the time he fully develops. Jerry West is a good GM, but the guy isn't all-knowing, he makes mistakes. If you ask him if he would take back the Jones/Campbell for Rice deal he would. He liked Nick Van Exel but Nick didn't fit, and he didn't trade Nick until Shaq practically made him. Krause built a 6 time championship squad but he has made a mistake. Nobody is perfect, and as good a GM as West is he isn't perfect.
I thought that this was supposed to be a great idea by a senior member. Sorry to be crass, but that is horrible. We finally have a true role player at the three in Hawkins. A talent waiting to emerge in Nacbar. At least a question mark in Morris. The last thing we need is Battier. If you want to propose an interesting idea, how about finding a way to get a tall defensive reserve at the point i.e. Brian Shaw/ Derek Harper ( I know he isn't around anymore it is the type of player I am referring to though) Moochie is obviously losing minutes quick now as the team grows past him and a tall dfensive point would allow steve to run the two more minutes in the game.
HP, I dont understand where you get that Shane Battier is a soft, finesse player. Just curious, how many games of his have you watched? Let me give you some background on why people who have followed him love his game. Early on in Battier's career at Duke, he was considered a player with desire and work ethic but lacking in terms of talent and a true position. He used to match up against PFs and such and did quite well. He brought incredible intangibles to the game ie. he took charges, dove for loose balls, etc. Battier showed the heart to do whatever it takes to win, whether he had to take a charge against a bigger player, dive onto the court and give up his body for a loose ball etc. In addition, Battier showed a very high basketball IQ and ability to blend very well with his teammates. He was considered the glue of that 2001 Duke Championship team. It is no coincidence the team lost the following season with Battier gone not even making the Final Four. The naysayers said Battier did not have the outside shot for the NBA (even though he showed a much improved one his senior yr shooting 40% from the arc if I remember correctly) and that his ball handling would not cut it for an NBA wing. During Battier's rookie season with the Grizz, he displayed very solid ball handling and legit range out to the NBA 3. In addition, he showed that he could defend SGs, SFs and some PFs. Shane has gotten where he has through sheer desire, determination and guts. Sure he does not have as much God given talent as some others, but it is no fluke the guy was the 6th overall pick. If Jerry West is crazy enough to deal away this talent, it is something he will regret in the long run. Remember one thing also, at draft time oeilpere said something to the effect that the Rockets graded Battier very highly. As far as the KT vs. Battier debates. I personally think Battier is better, but that is completely irrelevant. If the Grizz are to make a deal with the Rockets (which I rate as a longshot btw), it would not be for KT as they are loaded at the forward spot. If they feel they need a shotblocking big man to help their ailing defense, they could be interested in Cato. Other than that, I dont see a real possibility.
Garbage (slang) when referring to a player on the court means he is not very good. I do not have much time but I will leave you with one question. How good can a player be when he is maybe the fourth, probably the sixth best player on a winless team? You want to trade KT, our Oakley, or Moochie, our character guy, or Boki, our future small forward, for a player who had his best year at Duke. He would not make our rotation!
MManal, you certainly know more than me about Battier's Duke days. Question: Do you consider Eddie Griffin a finesse player? At Seton Hall he certainly wasn't? Is he more powerful than Battier? I don't have to see much more than my 5 NBA games of Battier to say that he is not in the category of powerful small forwards like Kenny. That doesn't mean that I only like powerful SF...hell, I love the potential of Nachbar. But we are talking about trade here. Who are the low post, strong, rebounding small forwards?? Not that many, but Battier is not one of them. This isn't really a knock on Battier, because generally the best Small Forwars are not Raging Bulls. My point is to say the Griffin and Mo are currently finesse PFs and Nach is a soft SF, and I want to balance the frontcourt with at least one powerful player. As Sane said, Terence could possibly be that player, but regardless, the Rox are soft with outside shooting, and Griffin becoming different remains speculation. If I trade Kenny, or really, anyone for a SF, I want to get someone strong, with rebounding and low post. Maurice, Griffin and Nach all have range...why do we need the 4th guy to have range...just so we can say he's a prototypical SF.
HP, I think we agree on a lot of strengths that KT has in his game and your line of thinking that we need one "Raging Bull" type with our other forwards is a logical suggestion. The question for me right now is whether a lineup with Mo and KT together on the floor will work offensively. As has been pointed out, this matchup advantage your talking about with KT against a SF only happens when Mo is on the floor also as opposed to Eddie. I was trying to watch for this tonight; Rudy went with it for the final 5:50 of the second quarter, and it had mixed results. It definitely was not as proficient as the stretch where the Rockets broke the game open in the 4th qtr with Francis, Mobley, Hawkins, Taylor, Ming and then Griffin for Ming after some time. The other real issue is that when everyone is healthy, how will the minute distribution be handled? Will Cato be completely thrown to the curb despite the fact that he has rebounded and blocked shots well? I realize the fact that the Rockets have held their own on defense and rebounding this season, but the offense has been awful for the most part. It just seems that the offense really clicks big time when Mo is operating out of the low post and is able to draw double teams and such and a more traditional lineup is on the floor. Im also wondering if our defense is really as good as advertised or if its just a byproduct of the competition. Teams like Denver, Toronto, Portland, Cleveland, Lakers have not been very good so far this season offensively.
Found a three way that would probably be benificial for all three teams: Rockets send PG Moochie Norris to Boston Memphis sends F Shane Battier and PG Earl Watson to Houston Boston sends PG Shammond Williams and SG Kedrick Brown to Memphis. Why Houston makes the deal: Get a coaches best friend in Battier, rid themselves of Moochie's contract, and also obtain a decent PG off the bench. Problem- A loaded frontcourt only get more crowded. Why Memphis makes the deal: West isn't a big Battier fan, and they get him out, but in addition pick up a good PG off the bench in Williams and a potential stud SG in Brown, the Grizz are weak at the SG spot. Why Boston makes the deal: Pick up a good, veteran point guard to run the show. With Paul Pierce taking all the minutes at the 2, Brown has little time to develop. If this trade were to go down, I'd like to see the Rockets, as much as I like him, trade KT, maybe we can get a first round pick for him. I think I'd rather have Battier over KT.
Dunleavy isn't as good as Battier. If Nachbar is only equal to Dunleavy that would suck. ON TRADING FOR BATTIER I like the idea. First of all Battier is more of a 3/2. However, instead of trading KT--who is very redundant with Memphis given their similar (but higher upside SF/PF tweener) Gooden plus their other quality PFs (Gasol, Swift)--I think Boki would be of greater interest to them. This would seem to fit much better on a number of levels. First, it wouldn't affect Rockets chemistry that much. Boki already isn't playing. Now you also have Battier to be Mobley's primary back-up, and you can play him at SF when we want a shooter as we do with Rice. At this time in Rice's career Battier is probably the equal offensive player, and much superior defense player--so I don't see anything bad about given Rice's minutes to Battier. For the Grizzlies this helps get rid of their current log jam of players good enough to demand PT but without a really high ceilling (except for Gasol and Gooden). In Boki they get a 22 year old who is mainly going to be on the bench a few years and not gripe about it, but who also has a much higher celling for being an explosive offensive player than Battier. Boki, unlike KT and like Battier--can also be a SG--far more of a need for the Grizz than another forward. Consider the follow trade scenario after a couple of months (which also gives us time to figure out how long it might take Boki to contribute mightily AND to see if Hawkins is going to maintain his effectiveness once teams start watching him more--as I get into later the emergence of Hawkins really impacts my thinking). Houston trades: PF Jason Collier (2.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 10.5 minutes) SF Bostjan Nachbar (2.5 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 12.0 minutes) Houston receives: SG Shane Battier (6.6 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 27.5 minutes) Change in team outlook: +2.1 ppg, -0.4 rpg, and +0.6 apg. Memphis trades: SG Shane Battier (6.6 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 27.5 minutes) Memphis receives: PF Jason Collier (2.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 4 games) SF Bostjan Nachbar (2.5 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 2 games) Change in team outlook: -2.1 ppg, +0.4 rpg, and -0.6 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Quite honestly I would have been all for this move a couple of weeks ago. But with Hawkins able to contribute the way he has I could go either way. If Hawkins is going to be a keeper, right now I am weary that like with Oscar Torres he is going to lose effectiveness as the NBA grind (and opponents microscopes) unfolds, that works against this trade form the Rockets end. Because of the general play of Hawkins and KT's SF play right now I see little downside in waiting and letting the high-potential Boki develop even if we aren't going to see much from him for a while. I see Battier in between Hawkins and Boki in lots of ways--not just age and basketball ceiling. While Battier is currently the best of the 3 players Hawkins so far seems to be up to the job as a back-up defensive oriented 2/3 who at least keeps you honest with his jump shot. So with Hawkins as adequate in this role the Rockets did not have before, there is little current risk for the Rockets to wait and see if Boki will pan out. But I Like Battier too, and know he will be a decent NBA player for a long time--something you can't say for Boki even if he ends up the best of the 3 down the road. Tough call. I guess if we start to see Hawkins effectiveness fade and that Boki is a couple of years away--I would lean for this trade. Because of Boki's recently signed contract both of these things should be apparent by the time a trade like this could go through--putting us in a good position to evaluate all angles.
Didn't Boki write the Rockets a letter after his tryout before the draft? How he wanted to play here and this was his first choice? He seems like a real nice guy but Shane would be a better fit on the Rockets. He doesn't need the ball on offense and plays tough D. Well have to wait a couple months though.
Why the heck would the Grizz make this trade...KT & T-Mo for Battier???....it makes no sense for them The Grizz already have 2 good and maybe great PF's in Gasol and Gooden, and I seriously doubt West is looking at a KT for the starting SF postion. I would love this trade as a Rocket fan...but being realistic the Grizz would def reject it. A LOT of other teams can offer A LOT better packages for Battier.
Boki did write that letter to the rockets. He said how He is very thankful about getting the chance to show his stuff in the summer tryouts. He would love to be in houston, its his number one choice.... ....THough, i dont know if he feels the same way now, now that he is warming the bench..for RICE?..WHO IS ICE COLD!!!. BoKI needs playing time...
I honestly think most of these trade scenarios are impossible. What would Memphis w/ Gasol, Gooden and Swift want with KT?? I think a trade scenario would have to include a point of weakness for the Grizzlies to get Battier, who I think would be a perfect fit on the Rockets. He is damn good defensive player, constantly preying on the passing lanes and is a great shot-blocker for his size. He can defend PF, SF and even SG's on occasion. He will do whatever it takes to win and doesn't need the ball in his hands like many of our players. Thats why I think that Rice is not going to work out because he NEEDS the ball and with Steve, Cuttino, Griffin, KT, Mo and Ming...he's just not going to get it. The Grizzlies are weak in the center position and need a true center and interior presence and a slasher that can shoot. I think we would probably have to take a contract away from them as well. Maybe something to the effect of: Cato, Nachbar for Battier and Change (to make it work Capwise) Or maybe a three-way trade to someone that needs Kenny or Cap relief with Rice.
I think Battier has as much potential as anyone - comparing Battier and K.T. isn't fair. They don't really play the same position. K.T. is a 3/4 where Battier is a 2/3. I always lean towards Duke players, but K.T. can hold his own and I probably wouldn't make the trade if offered (maybe I would just to spite Heypartner). I hope the Rockets don't make any trades and let this team gel, with the players we have we can be a very strong team in the West - "don't f!#* up the rotation!"
goddammit!! look, someone post battier's numbers. then yall will see, that battier is NOT A GOOD PLAYER. why would west, one of the smartest gm's on the planet want to get rid of him? maybe because he is horrible. as bigboym said, he is a bench guy on one of the worst teams in the nba. perhaps that does say it all. i think this board has fallen into the hands of a buncha r****ds. no wonder doc rocket and pued don't post here anymore. either too critical, or just stupid wannabe headcoaches/gm's run amok. geesh, battier........geeesh!
Battier put up 14.4ppg 5.4rpg 3.1apg 1.6spg 1.0bpg while shooting 43% & 37% as a rookie for a crappy team. He is not a terrible player. At worst he is a young Rick Fox with better hops--not a bad roll player. The problem is the Grizzlies need more explosive wing players, not wing players who are roll player. Totally different situation than us--remember we have Franchise and Cat, and our down low positions solidified. But the KT talk doesn't make sense for either team really. Boki might make sense, and the trade would work in another few weeks if Collier was thrown in. That is what we should be discussing if anything. Trading Boki also wouldn't effect Steve's posse, or chemistry, because Boki hasn't been here long and doesn't play.
I would love to have a smart team oriented player like Battier on the Rockets. I would trade Cato for him, since Ming is going to be inheriting the starting center spot soon. The Jerry West people crack me up.....he is no better at picking talent then any one else. All he did in LA, was get Shaq and Kobe together......and who could not tell that Shaq was great? LOL....Kobe he took a flyer on and it worked out. Jerry West is WAY OVERRATED....look at how good his Grizzlies are right now. DaDakota
