Ive always been a huge fan of Battier's game and like how he kept developing at Duke. Basically you are getting someone who will bring all the positive aspects that people love about J Hawkins (hustle, intangibles, defense, etc) except with a better outside shot and NBA body. Battier proved to the naysayers during his senior season at Duke and rookie season in the NBA that he can hit the three ball consistently. The problem this season is that the Grizz are trying him a good deal at the 2 guard spot and have zero offensive flow. All of their big men except maybe Gasol dont have a clue how to pass and get others involved, and their PG doesnt even need to be discussed. I still dont understand why the Grizz would take a package of KT and T-Mo for Battier tho. That deal does work on the cap btw. One other point.... I remember reading at draft time for the 2001 draft that Rudy and co. were very high on Battier and graded him very highly. Should be interesting.
I would love to bring in Battier, but how would we work out a trade? Why would the Grizzlies trade a SF for a PF when they already have Gasol and Gooden? Battier would look great on are team, and if Boki did get traded I think he would fit in on the the Grizzlies.
It's way too early to seriously talk about any trade scenarios, but if Battier were truly in West's "doghouse" he could be worth pursuing later on. Right now, we need to let this team get situated and see where it's at. Some of these dream trades are ridiculous though, it's as if Battier is being waved around like a flag. KT and Morris for Battier? Why would they want to clutter up the forward position even more. Cato for Battier and Swift? Please... If indeed he were available, I'm sure they'd want at least one of Cato/Mooch, plus Boki and maybe KT. At this point, I wouldn't deal Boki...we really haven't gotten a chance to see what he can do.
For the same reasons given above, I like Battier on the Rockets also. I am hopping that TMo will fill the same role, but you can never have to many scrappy, smart, defensive minded role players who can make the important shot and doesn't whine about PT, in my opinion. NBA tonight was discussing Battier as the odd man out, I think just last night. Aren't the Grizz desperate for a center? they have Gasol playing there now, and fairly unhappily. My guess is they would love Cato. Don't know if I could pull the trigger on that one though. FYI, I could not have done the Thorpe for Drexler trade. I really wanted to, but just didn't have the cahones. Kind of feel the same way now. Funny how two years ago, this board would have traded Cato for a piece of broken glass. Now, even with Ming developing, there seems to be a shift toward keeping Kelvin. I have always vaugely liked Cato. I felt he could be an average center,earning an average salary (average NBA - bizarro - god knows why, but that is the going rate - type average salary). In a few years when Ming steps up, Cato will be the best back-up center in the league. And in a league weak at center, I would like to add. He should be a highly tradeable commodity. Or we could just have the strongest and deepest center in the league.
I have no problems with this thread. Intelligent trades that only tweak the team are ok in my book. It's those damn fantasy GMs who suggest a 3 way deal to acquire an all star at every position that blow. For me I'll flame anything that is unrealistic and idiotic. This idea does not fall into the catagogry. Battier isn't going to put up amazing numbers but he's a hard nosed guy who plays a team game with great defense. A trade like this wouldn't require a dismantling of the team but I do agree with one poster that I would like to see how TMo works out. TMo could provide what Battier does at a lower cost and that's not even considering Boki. I doubt CD is gonna pull a trade like this until he and Rudy can properly asses TMo and Boki. The only really tempting thing at this point is that Battier can play the 2. The backcourt needs somebody else who can step in if SF, Cat or Hawk go down. Lord knows that Moochie can't do it and Tito in't ready.
Interesting point on Kelvin Cato, Pat. I think it actually could be more likely that the Grizz could want Cato than KT if Kelvin can keep up the stellar play of late. Their biggest weakness is the 5 position as Gasol and Gooden are more suited for the forward spots. Their defense is their weakness point, and Cato helps there. Basically, this would mean that the Rockets would go with Griffin and Taylor up front when Yao is sitting which is what has been the case with Cato out. There would be enough mins for Ming, Griffin, Taylor up front with KT moving between the 3 and 4 positions. Battier would have plenty of mins at the 3 with Rice stinking up the joint. Btw, Shane Battier and Brevin Knight for Kelvin Cato works.
Am I the only one who thinks Kenny is better than Shane Battier, and Shane has limited potential to out-do his rookie numbers that required 39 minutes per game to post? You can't say Shane is mature, NBA-ready, Mr Intangible with no real awesome skills, and at the same time expect him to have great, untapped potential. Kenny is the Raging Bull Mr. Intangible. That is how both Rudy and other GMs talk about him....oeilpere has confirmed this, no? They are abou the same height. One is a finesse SF the other is a multi-purpose SF/PF. Kenny is the better rebounder for sure (if not one of the league's best SF rebounders), and I think he's the better defender, as well. Battier is the better shooter (but not some stud), and Kenny is vastly the better low post SF, if not one of the league's best. Kenny is 25 yrs old Battier is 24 yrs old You guys really consider Battier a better player? And for those who are quick to say "Battier is a better fit," how exactly is that. Battier is a lessor Eddie. imo, to balance the fact that Eddie and Mo are finesse PFs, we need a Raging Bull small forward to help control the power players and protect Ming.
Heypartner, KT and Battier are similar in talent. I like the trade because it unclogs our PF position somewhat. All the minutes would go to Eddie and Mo. And we would be getting a guy who fits in well at the 3. No more having to play a guy out of position. His defense is what I like, he will hustle and do the little things, sort of like Hawkins, but perhaps better.
I don't consider KT playing out of position. And I certainly wouldn't compare too many people outside of Ron Artest to Hawkins' defense. KT does all the little things, too, like blocking Sabonis to win the game (he and Eddie both got it). KT does some of the big things too, like score at will against SFs in the low post and being a league leader for SFs in rebounding. imo, trading for Battier will seal our fate as a soft, finesse team. I can't trade Kenny for another soft player. I'd want a big SF type, someone like...umm, a strong SF, ummm well, someone like Kenny. we already have Nachbar for outside shooting.
I would LOVE to have Knight as the backup point guard. Check this out: Houston trades: PG Moochie Norris (3.4 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 1.8 apg in 18.8 minutes) PF Kenny Thomas (9.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 2.8 apg in 29.2 minutes) PF Jason Collier (2.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 10.5 minutes) PF Terence Morris (2.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 10.5 minutes) Houston receives: PG Brevin Knight (4.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 4.0 apg in 16.0 minutes) SG Shane Battier (6.6 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 27.5 minutes) Change in team outlook: -4.5 ppg, -5.5 rpg, and +0.5 apg. Memphis trades: PG Brevin Knight (4.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 4.0 apg in 16.0 minutes) SG Shane Battier (6.6 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 27.5 minutes) Memphis receives: PG Moochie Norris (3.4 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 1.8 apg in 8 games) PF Kenny Thomas (9.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 2.8 apg in 6 games) PF Jason Collier (2.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 4 games) PF Terence Morris (2.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 4 games) Change in team outlook: +4.5 ppg, +5.5 rpg, and -0.5 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED
"Am I the only one who thinks Kenny is better than Shane Battier, and Shane has limited potential to out-do his rookie numbers that required 39 minutes per game to post?" If you're not the only one, then you're one of a very small number of people. Believe it or not though, I agree with you that KT is the better player. I do not, however, agree that KT fits our system better. In fact, I don't think any of those guys fit our system properly. Maybe KT off the bench, but Battier, I don't know. The thing about Battier is, he brings the intangibles, but THAT'S IT. NOTHING else he does is worth a mention. Everything else is decent or worse. Hard work and hussle is becoming a trademark for this team. It's not enough for one person to do it. So far this season, I've seen almost everyone do it, and that's enough for me. Yao has grown more and more comfortable with a much more aggressive game, Mo showed us that he's effective in the low post at least, and Griffin. Well, I'm sure we ALL agree that he's trying, and that only strength is in the way of him becoming a good post player. Once these 3 get more and mroe comfortable in the post, which they will over the season, we won't need this post-up SF, tough guy. Leader? Francis is the leader. Intangibles? T-Mo brings the intangibles. Jumper? 90% of our whole roster has a better J than Shane. What do we lack? We need more passing, we need more a taller, more athletic SF, someone who brings D and scores efficiently. Someone who can hit the 3. The best SF for this team? T-Mo after one more season and offseason of working on his J and especially his 3-pt shot. Once those become decent enough for a 5th option player, then he brings everything else we need.
BTW, I don't know who said it, but I want to clarify one thing: Jerry West doesn't dislike J-Will. They have a very good relationship, and Jerry West believes in J-Will. I advise you to look at J-Will's recent numbers, with the exception of his forst game or two. Ever since Hubie Brown took over, he's been great. In the 2 games for Brown as coach: Something like 15 ppg, 7 asst, ONE TURNOVER PER GAME, and GREAT hussle and defense.
HP...I love Kenny. Being from New Mexico, I've followed his career with great interest. I hate the KT hating right now on this board. I can't wait unjtil he's fully healthy and makes some posters eat crow Who would I prefer between KT and Battier? Well...ideally I'd like to have both and lose Rice while still having Cato Offensivley, both these guys can score. The difference is that KT doesn't have a steady jumper and needs to create his shot in the post. I have no problem with that but it takes him a lot of time, killing the team ball movement. Battier meanwhile can post some, can create some space with his man and more importantly hits the open jumper. He moves extremely well with out the ball. Defensively, KT is the better rebounder and low post defender. Battier is better in all other aspects of the defensive game. He can absolutely smother an opponent. Imagine Hawk and Battier in the lineuip at the same time. A pair of backcout killers! Considering the Rockets' needs, Eddie is not consistent enough to play a full game on a regular basis. He lacks an inside game. His shooting % inside the arc is horrid! KT allows an offensive post player while Griffin's on the court which is sorely needed when Cato is the center. Defensively, Griffin still gets beat too often in man to man defense and Kenny is a nice help there. KT is a much better compliment to Griffin when he's playing the 4 rather than Taylor, IMO. Taylor brings a nice game to the court but the team looses rebounding when he's playing. KT at the 3 definately makes up for Mo's poor rebounding but I really don't care to see 3 post players on the court at the same time. It really clogs things up offensively and limits the ball movement. Kenny is the better low post defender than Taylor, IMO, but Taylor can not slide over and cover a 3 like Eddie. With Taylor in the game, I'd prefer to see Battier than Kenny. Battier has the size to help on post players but he's a perimeter defender. He's an average rebounder for a 3. With Shane and Griffin playing at the same time, the team would essentially have 4 offensive minded perimeter players. That might be allright when Ming establishes himself but until than, I do not want to see Cato as the main low post scoring option. Battier and Taylor in the same lineup would create some terrific spacing and each of those guys can drain the open J. Another option would to have TMo play the 3 consistently when Taylor's in the game to make up for hte rebounding deficencies. Ahh...there's too much to consider! For me it's a toss up between the two without even thinking about potential injuries but it's a moot point. KT is a Rocket and it's certainly not clear cut that Battier would be a better fit. I like the team as it stands right now and am anxious to see what Terrence adds to the team. Maybe we can come back to this idea around the all-star break
that is surprisingly correct. i have read in many different news outlets that West actually coveted Williams while with the Lakers.
The fans hated Rice, and wanted Fox on the floor instead of him. In fact, Fox was playing in the fourth quarter of most of the games. Rice could do the same things he did in LA if given the minutes now... scoring 15 ppg while being a top 3 scoring option and playing over 30 minutes per game isn't a tough challenge. drapg, Not doing something because Jerry West doesn't like it is foolish. By the same logic, would you decline every trade presented to you by Memphis, since the player "must not be good" if West thought about trading him? West is good, but I'd prefer to use our own scouts knowledge over his. There are some instances where players like Battier might not be a good fit for a team they are on, but would be in other places. I think he would be a great fit here.
If I remember correctly, Rice's wife complained to the media during that Finals series. Apparently Jerry West has become the almighty trade guru.
BTW, Jerry West is not a Yao Ming fan. We didn't like it much when he said Ming isn't a shotblocker, but, surely enough, 7 games into the season, Ming doesn't even block one shot a game I think. When asked to compare how Ming will compare to Abdul Jabbar and O'Neal, West said hat he doesn't compare at all. We may not like what West says, but we have to agree on one thing. Most of the things he says are true, and most of the trades he makes are good ones. If there is ONE man in the league who you would ask for advice on trades, honestly, who else would it be?
I don't care what the scenarios are. I can bet you all that there will be trades in Rox and it is not going to be one for one deal. The speculation is meaningless now.
