The whole point about Cato being valuable now is that last season he came off the bench and showed he can play. He's always played extremely well off the bench which is why the rockets were wrong to throw so much money at him after one exhibition game in the offseason. The NBA has a short term memory. He played very well last season and his trade value would be based off of that. Stop worrying about how he produced as a starting center on our team because he'll see a different kind of game in somebody else's offense, or at least that's how most teams think. Cato is a very valuable bench player, teams respect his shot blocking and he works the glass very hard. If he can come in and change some shots in the paint then he's done his job. He is WAY overpaid and I wouldn't mind seeing his cap number disappear but we'd have to get a starter for him as he is our most consistent player off the bench right now. Let me make this clear, I have never been a big fan of Cato's. I think his offensive game doesn't extend beyond 3 feet from the basket. But he is not the only Rocket with a one sided game. I give as an example, MoT. Mo his the offensive game we need but a lot of the shots that Cato blocks or changes are coming his way because Mo is a seive on defense. Mo is also way over paid for what he gives us but again we through a lot of money at an one sided player without making them earn it first. If we can move Cato for a starter do it. If we don't get a starter then its not worth giving up the Yao / Cato tandom we have right now. Maybe if he were part of a package that brought us a starter and a back up center at a much lower cost.
Shaq: Great Yao: Great Eddy Curry: 4.4 rpg (Cato 6 rpg in less mins) Ben Wallace: 7 ppg in 39 mpg Brian Grant: way more overpaid than Cato Sabonis: can't play more than 20 mpg because of age Divac: OK Tim Duncan: not a center David Robinson: retiring Magloire: 10 ppg in 30 mpg in the East Brad Miller: OK Ratliff: ingury prone Pollard: stiff Shawn Bradley: LOL Kurt Thomas: OK Ilgauskas: OK Mutombo: too old Nesterovic: no D Okur: 4.7 rpg Olowokandi: OK Dale Davis: not a real center Camby: injury prone, had highest scoring avg. in his ROOKIE year Elden Campbell: 6 ppg, 3 rpg this year Jason Collins: 5.5 ppg, 2.7 rpg in more mins. than Cato Raef LaFrentz: foul prone, no D Alonzo Mourning: sick for the past few years Of the above 25 centers (Duncan doesn't count) only 9 are clearly better than Cato. BTW, you cites Cato's career numbers. What's important is his number this year. He has clearly improved.
Here's some examples : Cato for Kurt Thomas. Cato for PJ Brown. Cato + for Antonio Davis. Cato for Ratliff. Cato for Micheal Redd. Cato for GP. Cato for Tony Parker. Cato for Brent Barry. Cato + contract for Grant. That's just a start. There's no way he can deliver value in 10 min. a game vs. an upgraded starter. Rocekts need to move 4 guys that don't have a future here Cat + EG Cato + Rice mix and match however - that's two solid trades for compatible players. If they can move Taylor and Mooch, too, great. Trade now.
can God make a stone that he cannot move??? That describes Mo and Moochie imo Rocket River I'd like to see both of them MOVED!
If you really think Campbell, Shawn Bradley, Jason Collins, Pollard, Dale Davis, and Camby are better than Cato, you are nuts man. First of all, Brian Grant isn't a 5. Would you really have your starting 4 and Brian Grant? Or would you rather have your starting 4 and Cato at the 5? COme on man. Grant is a 4. He plays the 5 out of necessity. He is not a better 5 than Cato. He is not even a 5. Same goes for Camby and Raef Lafrentz. THey are 4's and questionable 4's at that. I'm assuming since you think all these centers are better than Cato, that if you could you would trade him for one of them straight up? Mourning? Dude don't have no kidneys. How many games has he played the last 2 years? Would you actually trade Cato for him? Sabonis? Dude is like 50, came back out of retirement, is slow, good passer. Would you really trade Cato for him? David Robinson is retiring. He won't be in the league in a month! Kurt Thomas????? Another power forward! Good player but not a center. He's a power forward. Ilgauskas. Great player..............................WHEN HE AIN'T ON CRUTCHES! But, I'll give you him. IF HE COULD STAY HEALTHY, I'd take him in the middle over Cato. Ratliff????? Dude is hurt all the time. And what part of his game is an upgrade over Cato's????????????? Realistically, your list should read Shaq, Yao, Wallace, Duncan (although he is a 4 too), Divac (maybe), Brad Miller (maybe), Kandi Man (maybe), Okur (perhaps, hasn't played enough), Mutombo (and a ton of Ben Gay along with a zipper for his lip), Ben Wallace (although he too is really a 4), DRob (If he didn't retire and his back wasn't degenerated), Alonzo (if he can play after a kidney transplant), Ilgauskas (if his feet are in Nike's and not in traction), Brad Miller (perhaps)..........and that's about it. That is all the players on your list that I would play at the 5 or consider playing at the 5 before Cato. And that is only if they were healthy enough to get off the bench and play!!!!!! The rest of them are not better centers than cato......period. Some of the rest may be decent players, but they are out of position at the 5 and we are better off with Cato there. You have to streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch to come up with 20 that are better than Cato at the 5. He is a commodity, a valuable commodity! And if we don't give him more minutes at the 5 and the 4, so he can be on the floor for at least 20 a game, then our best bet is to trade him for value. He is a legit 5, who is just coming into his own. He is a legit defensive presence and rebounding presence to rival Ben Wallace. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he bypassed Wallace next year for rebounds per minute. He is an animal on the court. So, if we ain't gonna play him, let's trade him and somebody for a stud 4, that can rebound, play D, and knock down the open J.
Cato as starting PF? Then who will be backing up Yao? Griffen? MoT? Its not that starting Cato at PF wouldn't be entertaining. It would force teams to think twice about coming into the post. Still, not very likely. Too many athletic PF in the league for Cato to try and move with away from the paint.
Realistically, just consider this. Who are gonna be the starting centers around the league next year? We can only name about 13-15 of them. Doesn't that tell you something? The position is so weak that half of the league's starting centers could be different by the first game of next season. Other teams are drooling at the prospects of grabbing Cato to be their starting center. He has value!
Trade him now. He was one of the better centers in the league last year and can be as long as he's happy. When he's unhappy though, he sucks, and he seems to have a mercurial temperment. He won't thrive in every environment and may well turn sour on us at just about any moment. But, he definitely has trade value now, so get something for him.
Honestly, I'd put Yao at the 4 and let Cato be the starting center. Then MoT comes in to spell Cato, Yao shifts to the Center. Later, Cato comes back in, Yao gets a rest. I STRONGLY support going to this twin tower-esque rotation. Cato is a great compliment simply because he doesn't demand the ball on offense, yet can grab the offensive board & put back the dunk. Plus, more minutes on the floor means more alley oops from the guards, and you gotta love that. He'll bring defense & rebounds to the starting line up, and won't ask for touches on offense, which is exactly what this line up needs.
I'd agree with paso2x. As Ming gets better and stronger, Cato is only going to see less and less time on the court, since they don't believe in playing him with Ming. So use him as bait to reel in a guy who can play with Ming and SF, and try to get a decent backup center back in the deal. I think this is as high as his trading value will get.
NBA is a BUSINESS. The sooner people realize this, the better. Like so many ridiculously overpaid veteran players, Cato has NEGATIVE TRADE VALUE, simple as that. It's not just about playing ability (well maybe it is, maybe I just don't rate Cato as highly as any of you) but it's mainly because of the contract situation. Nobody wants this guy as long as the current CBA is in effect. Big-money long term contracts like Cato's are so nearly impossiblt to move. The only way we can trade a guy like Cato is package him with a decent player with decent contract like Cuttino Mobley and get a WORSE player than Mobley with a contract which expire SOONER than Cato's. BTW, I want to say that something here. All NBA franchises (bar a few exceptions Kings, Mavs and Blazers, actually maybe those teams as well) are highly aware of the financial side and salary tax issue. The Houston Rockets are also one of them who want to reduce payroll to avoid salary tax (that's exactly the reason why I think they will be NO moves at Houston this summer and they will hold onto Rice's expiring contract and let it expire and reduce the payroll). I really hope that more fans learn something called COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT. I know that fans around here or ANYWHERE are not interested about CBA stuff, about the luxury tax, they think it's boring. I really think you have to have a basic understanding of the CBA and its logic to understand the current state of NBA. If you know more about CBA, you wouldn't post some trade proposals here which are not going to happen in a million years. It's also too bad because, if a fan does not understand this nuts and bolts stuff, if a fan does not appreciate that this is a BUSINESS, then he/she will simply assume that every move that his/her team makes is made in an attempt to put a better team on the basketball court. Also, if you wants to make a claim, and then back that claim up with an argument, full of logic and numbers and facts, great, then we can have a discussion. It's nice to favour your own team and own players. But sometimes put aside your homerism and come up with better arguement please.
I think a little higher of Cato than you but not as much as other people. I think Cato played well this year in short minutes but in "some" games when he got more minutes, he dragged at the end of his stretches, committed more fouls and performed at a lower level. 4/15, Memphis, 27 min, 7 reb. 4/12, Seattle, 26 min, 5 reb. 3/29, Denver, 33 min , 6 reb. ... I don't know if he can do well playing 35 minutes a game for 82 games. He had not shown he could do that the previous 3 years. He actually had not averaged more than 26 minutes/ a game in any year. I think Cato is overpaid for a backup but not for a starter. Cato's trading value, while hampered by his big, long contract, is still as high as it's ever been. Some of the center-starved teams might want him for their starting center. Depending on what we want to do at other positions, we should trade Cato to fill other need. Yao will only get more minutes as time goes by, 35-38 minutes/ game. We don't want to pay Cato to play 10, 13 minutes/ game.
Newgirl, you lambaste fans here for overvalueing our players, but you are just as foolish for undervalueing them. You sound like you're just making excuses for Rudy and Co. There's plenty the Rockets can do. They have to. Ticket sales for the new arena suck. Box sales suck. Naming rights deal sucks. There will be a move - mark my words. They have to create a big buzz. There will be a big splash. You seem to take glee in declaring the situation hopeless. It's not. You convieniently forget the moves other franchises make - like Anthony Mason, or Antonio McDyess, or Vin Baker. Teams are hungry for big men, even with warts.
I hear ppl here and there saying Eastern teams would love to have Cato on their team. I for one,can't think of a single realistic trade with a eastern team where he could be an asset and bring in a usefull player for us! Can you?! ALA
Although he is paid too much, Kelvin Cato is an important part of the Rockets rebuilding. He should only be traded at a last resort and only if it brings us a much superior player. For example in a package deal with the Clipp Joint for Elton Brand.
You should probably learn something about the state of the NBA. You complain about Cato who makes 7 million a year. But guess what. He's not the only center in the league making 7+ million a year. Here's a list of some others that may suprise you: Jim McIlvaine Greg Ostertag Bryant Reeves Calvin Booth Yogi Stewart Erick Dampier Luc Longley (yes, this year!) There are more, too. And the Kandiman is about to join them. Those NOT making 7 mil a year? Jerome James (averaging 4 & 4 a game) Jelani McCoy (averaging 7 & 6 a game) Jamaal Magliore (averaging 9 & 8 a game) Brad Miller (averaging 14 & 8 ... and probably soon to be making 7+ mil a year). Teams pay a premium for 7 footers. You just can't teach height. And unfortunately, you just can't teach teams to not pay so damned much for height.
true...there are teams out there that believe Cato can be a solid starter for them eek: We should strike while the iron is hot and get someone who can contribute, while unloading the 7mil/yr burden of a contract.
Lost all your credibility there. We all know that Doc Rocket's info is as solid as it gets. I'm not going to argue with you. I've actually tried to avoid arguing with you as muc has possible as you are one of the few people on this board who are not here to converse, but just to talk. It's just my opinion though. Not everyone has to agree.
The 'next' coach is always THE coach who can make that mysterious 7 footer a stud. See: Booth. See: James. See: Rasho. See: McIlvaine. See 'em all. Cato had a 'good' season, half his contract (in years) is spent. The man has more value than he should. Ainge? Convert him from Walker, make Battie your 4. Or Knicksies, grab Cato and EG for KT and your lotto oick. I hear Larry wants a 7 footer in the middle of his D. Look towards Indy to keep O'Neal at the 4 and give 'breathers' to Miller, while massaging the roster (not for Croshere, tho -- please) -- Harrington, yes, with Mercer and let Isaih rehabilitate Mooch. But, by all means, expunge KC while expunging is in order.
