The only player I like is Mason! We need players that are not a quick fix, like Payton, but ones that have a decent chance of playing at their top level for the Rox, for at least 5 years. So I dont like the proposed trade.
Bibby was with the Grizzlies for 3 years. Reef was on the Grizzlies and Atlanta for a total of 7 seasons, and whenhe was in the West DID NOT PLAY PF. I repeat, Reef was not the Grizzlies' PF. The reason I believe Reef is a "loser" is because Atlanta had all the talent to be the #1 seed in the East, but ended up out of the playoffs. Really, even if chemistry was absent, they should've made the playoffs. For 12M, I'm looking for the stuff Payton brings. For 12M, I'm looking for more than plain consistency. He will not be a 20-pt scorer on the Rockets, and he cannot hit the 3 consistently. Payton will be here 3 years, and his imprint will remain on the team indefinitely. Look at the Sonis. They are a mold of Payton's leadership.
deleted. crap, sorry for proposing a different trade proposal in your thread. on your trade: man I dont think I like it. If Payton was a little younger, maybe. But I think we can get a better deal for our guys. we may be underestimating Mobley and Griffins trade value. I bet most teams in the league would love to try to swing a deal for Mobley and Griifn too, maybe they'd slobber like dogs in heat for those guys and offer us everything but the sun and the moon, who knows. Also, we may be underestimating what a high-priced last-year contract like Rice's can do for some GM's out there; thats a lot of future cap room for some team to work with. So its not a bad trade, I just think we can do much better.
lee- I agree with you, and think that the "winning" thing for players in such bad organizations such as the Miller (Clips/Cavs), Brand (Clips/Bulls), Odom (Clips), and SAR (Grizz/Hawks) is not really an issue. But, I just wanted to point out: SAR wasn't traded for Wright and Knight. He was traded for Wright, Knight, AND the #3 pick in the draft-one Pau Gasol. I think Memphis makes that move 7 days a week and twice on Sundays.
I'm not sure of that because Gasol isn't doing any better than what SAR is doing now or was then. SAR is still 26 yrs old and those who say he can't hit the 3, so what? If the guy takes the same amount of shots as Mobley 14, and gets 20 pts along with 8 rebs while shooting 47%, what more can you ask for? On top of that, the 16 shots that Friffin and Taylor took could be redirected towrds Ming and other players. They had the number 6 pick already also. Say you keep and resign Bibby, along with SAR and draft Jefferson then you have something with Bibby,Dickerson,Jefferson,SAR and whoever at center. It can be said that he didn't play the 4 for Vancuver or whatever, but from what i used to watch , thats pretty much what he played. If he did play the 3, his post up ability and sign a veteran for the mle would also give us an advantage. One of the advantages we thought we might have on a nightly basis at the poing is starting to get evened out by Steves piss poor defense. This is a forum , so its always up for debate, but i think he would be a great fir for this team.
So what is Francis record with the Rockets? Does anyone not doubt that this team has as much if not more talent than Minny,Utah, and to some degree SA and Phoe? Where did this team end up?
of course this team has more talent than any of the teams you mentioned above. THAT'S WHAT WENT WRONG. the only other teams that you can say that about are the clippers and dallas. bundles and bundles of talent and potential. one of three things have to happen for teams like the rox, clippers, and mavs to be successful: 1. You're lucky that they all know their roles and they mesh well. or 2. You have the coaching staff to make them mesh. the mavs just happened to be number one. the rox and clips have neither. players have to "make up" their roles or "break up" the team. screw talent. we need carl hererra, o.t., and bullard-type players to make this work. we have to many "superstars" on the team.
What kind of deal could you make with the devil(jerry west) to gt gasol? Actually, I'd take Swift and Battier for Griffin and whoever. Knowing west though, he's trying to clear cap room for the fa class after this one, so any deal the rockets make with them will probably involve taking Rice and ubloading one of those ignorant long term deal that were orchestrated before he got there.
I can't believe you just gave a "well Francis is messed up too" response. This is about fixing our team. I don't care what Francis' record is, and I know that you KNOW for a fact that his winning percentage is better than SAR's. SAR, I don't think, has ever eclipsed 40 wins his entire career. Francis has hit that mark twice, in 3 or 4 seasons. At the right price, SAR is a good deal. But at 12M, you're basically locking our hands up and saying let's go to war. But SAR won't change the direction of this team. He can't be a leader and he'd be the worst defender on our team, and that's very difficult to accomplish. About my trade, and why I don't think we're getting ripped off, here's how I see it: We get Desmond Mason for one season to fill-in at the 3 spot while Boki develops and T-Mo backs up. If he's really as good as you guys say he is, then great, we'll clear some room and re-sign him for the right amount. As for Payton, I am ASSUMING that he WILL NOT be as good as he used to be. I know that. But what he is now is exactly what I'd like to trade for, because he won't be able to carry us the whole season, but he will teach the players, and be a leader. Think about how effective his presence will be on Francis' development, and think about how easily Ming gets the ball. I'm trading for a downhill Payton, and that's what we need. His defense is still best on our team, his passing is best, leadership, all that. He WILL get us to 50 wins, while I don't think SAR can do that for us. As 3 seasons go by, Francis will learn more and more from Payton and will eventually become a much better passer and will be a better PG than he was, but I doubt he'll be able to go back to being a PG. However, Payton;s prints will stay with this team, like it did with the Sonis, and we will be a better team knowing our players learned from him. To be quite honest, I think Griffin can do anything SAR can do in 2 seasons. At 6'11, I'd rather wait on him than take on SAR and his contract. If it's consistency we're looking for, we have the MCE to offer to consistent players. Consistency is worthless unless you consistently WIN.
Rockets- Heat are talking a potential swap Eddie jones for Cat and MoT, I saw the headline in hoopsworld.com. Check it out if you have success.
I would do... Cuttino Mobley, Eddie Griffin, Glen Rice, and a 1st Round Pick as well as some cash FOR Elton Brand and Quentin Richardson.
Something this and any trade analysis now needs is a meticulous look at all the contracts involved. For instance, it's pointless to think of what Glen Rice brings to the team he's traded to on the court. Glen Rice is desirable for his expiring contract only. All these players need to be examined from the light of their contracts if you want to speculate about this seriously.
5.0 + 2.2 + 9.2 = 16.4 million 15.0 + 1.0 = 16.0 million How much do you think Elton Brand will be offered in the offseason? Between 11 and 15 million a season? Cuttino Mobley, Eddie Griffin, Glen Rice, and 1st Round Draft Pick For Elton Brand! and Quentin Richardson! Does anyone know if Q. Richardson is any good? Can he shoot 3's?
Eddie Griffin and Glen Rice for Stromile Swift and Shane Battier. If I was GM of the Rockets,,,, Dddddaaaang. I would accept. Lovely. I wish. Battier can shoot 3's and play defense and hustles. Perfect. Swift is tall and athetic...but seems to be unable to dunk.....but he is very athletic...could make up for Yao's slowness. Don't think he can shoot though. Cuttino Mobley, Eddie Griffin, Bostjan Nachbar, Glen Rice, Kelvin Cato, and a 1st Round Pick for Elton Brand, Andre Miller, and Quentin Richardson! Whooo!
Well said. Mike Finley would be a #1 option on A LOT of NBA teams and Nash would be on A LOT of teams in the East. They have Nick "the Quick" coming off the bench who was a #2-3 @ worst-option a few years ago (with LAL DEN). But these guys for the most part have put winning over egos...something the Rockets and to a much greater extent Clippers haven't been able to do. So like you said, Omega, the Rockets have to 'clean house' so to speak; I've been saying this as well (some other posters too). As far as Sane's trade proposal goes, it's a lot to digest, but I could see reasons for each team doing it. Although, I just don't like Gary Payton as much as some of you b/c long-term I think it does more harm than the short-term success would. Gary is a great player no doubt, but let's be honest, he isn't the defensive stopper he once was and offensively his game has/will become more limited with age. He's already in his mid-30s (34 or 35?) so that gives him two maybe three more seasons playing @ a TOP/ALL-STAR LEVEL. Let's say it's three years - @ that time Yao will only be in his mid-20s (25) and Francis won't even be 30 yet (29).
