You missed my point here - I could care less about Orlando. The trade for TMac (back issues aside) was a good trade but only in the context that the Rockets would be able to put the proper players around both Yao & McGrady. Well it's 2 years later and that still hasn't happened. My point was that nearly everyone took it as a virtual certainty that this organization was up to the task of finding the right mix of complementary players. Based on what I've seem and what has transpired thus far, I have zero confidence in their ability to ever get that done. I also question how they can continue to blow off the draft in favor of their current philosophy of trying to build a contender through the aquisition of so-called "solid veteran players" which has left them with a roster that faces serious problems competing in the West.
It is believed that Battier's contract is more complicated than everyone thought, and it is also thought that there is a 3rd team involved in the trade with another player, according to reporters.
Hang in there, HB. It has indeed been 2 years, but take a moment to really analyze what has taken place over the last 2 years. We lost a highly competitive first-round, 7-game series in which we could have very well won against a "worthy" division rival. We make a few free throws, cut down a few turnovers, and get a few calls in our favor, and maybe we move on to Phoenix 2 seasons ago. The David Wesley, Jon Barry, and Mike James acquisitions were very good complementary players obtained by our organization. With regard to the past season, everyone was hurt. As disappointing as it was for all of us (fans, players, organization), reasonable prospects for a successful season fell by the wayside as injuries piled up, specifically for Yao & McGrady. In order for our team to even consider a championship, our 2 main guys have gotta be healthy, and they've gotta be stars. Every team is relying on this same truth. I'm not quite sure where the "continuing to blow off the draft" aspect is realized. Luther was an excellent draft pick at #24, and if he continues to work hard at his game, he will be a very good player. I don't believe we had a first round pick the year before. As for this year's draft trade, it's simply a matter of preference as a fan. Some people see the potential in Gay, and believe he would've been the answer. Some people originally held fast to similar ideals in Slomile Swift and now are willing to forgo the flash-and-dash in favor of a historically efficient and effective Shane Battier. Don't fear. With a healthy T-Mac and the emerging dominance of Yao, the west will have serious problems with the Rockets.
I see where you are coming from, but my point is that it is still to early to judge. Like you said tmac came over only 2 years ago. They had a very solid first season with the moves they brought in. Also remember it wasnt until trades were made and Wesley and JB came in that the team turned that first season around. As for last year, it was injuries that derailed them. No team can lose their two superstars for that long and compete. As for the draft philosophy there have only been two drafts since tmac arrived. Luther Head at the 24 pick was good value. They really could not have done that much more that year. Now this years draft they make a trade. I understand the anger due to Gay's potential but this is hardly a trend of blowing off the draft. Look around at past champions. No super young team wins the championship. The heat have a young wade, but veterans shaq, posey, walker, mourning, payton and williams were vital to them winning. Detroit won with a group of veterans in billups, wallace, wallace, hamilton and a fairly young prince. Spurs have vets in duncan, bowen, horry, and even ginobili who played some overseas before coming to the NBA. I agree you can not win with a bunch of old guys. You also can not win with a bunch of young guys. Obviously the Rox have more planned this year since they still dont have all their slots under contract yet. Lets wait and see.
What is so bad about us getting James back. If he does sign that means we basically got Rafer for free. Im sure people are tired of reading us argue. Ill move on. Just so you know though, I wasnt insulting you with the Asian remark. I am asian also. That had nothing to do with it.
Free? You say free? MJ could prob been signed much more easily had they not traded him. Plus, we'll still have the MLE instead of blowing on him. RA could be had for scrubs+2nd rounders. Anyway, the point is the management is constantly going in circles, correcting the last mistake.
oh my... i'm still in so much pain that we traded Gay away... this site should remove all links leading to this man's videos because they hurt oh so bad to watch.... please... remove my pain... the rockets will rue the day they gave Gay away for battier....
I agree with HillBoy. Orlando vs. Rockets? The depressing answer is clear after 2 years. Orlando has done a much better job building their team since the McGrady trade. Who cares what's happened with the players originally involved in the trade(Francis, Mobely, Cato, etc.)? They dumped them and got better players. Turkoglu, Jameer, D. Howard, Redick, Milicic -- Orlando's got a young roster full of talent. They made an amazing run at the playoffs last year and will only get better. They've got talent today AND potential for improvement or trades. The best days are ahead for their starting line up. I'm not a big Redick fan, but I'd say Orlando got a lot more value for their #11 pick than we did for our #8 pick. And the Rockets? T-Mac's best days are behind him. Sure he's great player, but a 27 y/o guard/forward with chronic back and knee problems is not a good sign. McGrady will continue to decline; it's just a question of how fast and how steep. That's not even considering his mental state. Remember the undisclosed personal problems in February? http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2334682 "At times, I don't even want to be in the arena or a uniform." I don't like Kobe Bryant, but I have to admire how that guy kept playing excellent basketball through out the whole Denver rape allegations. I don't think he missed a single game. Which current Rockets starter, besides Yao Ming, has any tremendous upside? Where's the young talent pool? Head and Novak. Not a very deep pool. Bottom line is you can't keep eating your seed corn (I think that's the saying). The Rockets don't even have a 2nd round pick next year! And they have almost no young talent to draw from. Barring injury they'll be good enough to stay out of the lottery, but they're no where near competing in the Western Confernce.
Maybe Battier is really worth this much since accoring to ESPN the Sonics offered Fortson and the 10th for Battier
There are so many things wrong with this post, I don't even know where to start. Nope, two letters sum it up: B and S.
My 1st impression was I hated the trade. But now I am thinking Battier can play the 4 against the likes of Marion, Josh Howard and the Spurs (since Duncan gets his playoff time at C and with Rasha and possible NM gone the Spurs have no choice). Probably only against the Clips, who I think are still middle of the road for a WC playoff team, have a regular 4 that Battier could not match-up with. Further, Yao, Batt, Tmac, Mike James (assuming he comes) and Head/Alston could be ridiculously hard to stop offensively. You have versitlity, shooting and quickness all around Yao. Now that I am thinking of Battier as a better 4 for us than Swift (esp given the trend of teams going versitlel-quick, particularly versus Dallas and Phx who have eaten us alive in recent years) I can really see what we are going. That said, it is a crime we didn't at least get Memphis 1st pick or a future 1st rounder because either Gay or Swift should not have been far off of Battier's alone value. I would have taken Farmar (superior overall player to Lowry, Memphis choked that pick IMO) or Ager with that pick. So I do think the Rockets got the shaft on trade value, but I am starting to think Battier could make the Rockets much better next year given the trends in the league.
Swift is younger, better and less disruptive than Fortson, and pick 8 is better than 10. So Memphis got MUCH better value in our offer, to much value even though Battier might be a good player for the Rockets.
No problem: I agree with HillBoy. Orlando vs. Rockets? The depressing answer is clear after 2 years. Orlando has done a much better job building their team since the McGrady trade. Oh, they have? Besides Jameer and Howard (who doesn't count- having the #1 pick made this a near no-brainer). Milicic? What has he proven? Redick? Same. And Turkoglu- great in spurts, lousy defense, useless in the playoffs. I would strongly disagree that they have a roster full of talent. Yes, they have some pieces- but if you're going to tell me that they've done a "much better job"- no, slightly better, if not the same. Remember, we nabbed Sura, Barry, and Wesley after the McGrady trade- in addition to getting Head and now Battier, as well as possibly bringing Mike James back. Who cares what's happened with the players originally involved in the trade(Francis, Mobely, Cato, etc.)? They dumped them and got better players. Turkoglu, Jameer, D. Howard, Redick, Milicic -- Orlando's got a young roster full of talent. They made an amazing run at the playoffs last year and will only get better. They've got talent today AND potential for improvement or trades. The best days are ahead for their starting line up. I'm not a big Redick fan, but I'd say Orlando got a lot more value for their #11 pick than we did for our #8 pick. And the Rockets? T-Mac's best days are behind him. Sure he's great player, but a 27 y/o guard/forward with chronic back and knee problems is not a good sign. McGrady will continue to decline; it's just a question of how fast and how steep. That's not even considering his mental state. Remember the undisclosed personal problems in February? http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2334682 "At times, I don't even want to be in the arena or a uniform." I don't like Kobe Bryant, but I have to admire how that guy kept playing excellent basketball through out the whole Denver rape allegations. I don't think he missed a single game. Which current Rockets starter, besides Yao Ming, has any tremendous upside? Where's the young talent pool? Head and Novak. Not a very deep pool. Bottom line is you can't keep eating your seed corn (I think that's the saying). The Rockets don't even have a 2nd round pick next year! And they have almost no young talent to draw from. Barring injury they'll be good enough to stay out of the lottery, but they're no where near competing in the Western Confernce. Good enough to stay out of the lottery? McGrady will continue his decline? Orlando got a lot more value for their #11 pick? The Rockets don't even have a 2nd round pick? Which one of these do you all agree with? Sorry, but I strongly disagree with all of these, and with good reason. I think we're way better than a lottery team, I don't think Tracy will continue to decline, who cares about a 2nd round pick, Redick is NOT more valuable than Battier, having a young talent pool is not in and of itself a key for success (how else do you explain the Golden State Warriors), etc. etc. etc. Is that good enough for you?
Now, this is a good read. . Rockets is in this condition partly because of the 'Win Now' mode, looking for short term fix instead of long term solution.
How ignorant of a post. A best days behind him Tmac is far greater than most guard forwards in the L. Wait until next season before you call him finished. This season had its share of disappointments from the entire team. His mental state? Undisclosed personal problems? He had ANOTHER family meember sick with a fatal disease and die AGAIN, one for every season. How the heck is basketball the most important thing to you when you have family dropping like flies on you? You need to re-think your position because you had better hope this never happens to you then someone calls you mentally weak. I'd even say for the fact that Tmac has endured so many deaths to close personal family, he is far stronger than you give him credit for, and even far stronger than Kobe Which brings me to the next thing. Kobe brought that rape case on himself. He is the one who slept with the girl. He is the one who cheated on his wife. He is the one who snitched on Shaq. He is the one who had his lawyers destroy that girls life in the media everday. He is the one who paid her off. He is the one who paid off his wife to stay with him. He is the one who was pampered by Jerry Buss every trial date with a free private jet and free limo escort. You also leave out the fact that his personal issues affected the ENTIRE TEAM, in the end ridding them of Shaq and Phil, and in a sorry losing effort in the finals he screwed his team over taking 35% of the shots on 33% shooting while he ignored the very people who came there to help the team, whom he alienated. They suffer for his personal problems til this day. but you dont want to admit that. They went from the finals to a one and done team with players the fans trash talk all season, and the one guy who made it all possible is forever given a pass for screwing everyone over he had free reign to. Dont make it seem noble that someone kept playing a game of basketball, even though he raped a lady. Thats one of the most ignorant things a person could say. There was absolutely nothing admirable about that crap.
You were the one who brought up trading as the way to win a championship. You said we traded for a TMac back then. SO I said we had tradeable assets back then and now we don't. So are you expecting another blockbuster trade to happen? My point is, we can do it throught the draft. And I said tradeable assets, not great players. So out of all the teams I gave, you can only single out the Pistons? What are the chances that the Pistons can win again nex year? Or the year after? I happen to think the Mavs have a great chance again next year. The point is, you don't win Championhips by only trading. You have to draft too. I'm willing to wait 2 to 3 years for a young talent to develop. It's not like Yao and TMac will be past their prime by them. Yao will only be 29 and TMac only 30. Why? Will Battier suddenly launch us into the Championships? Please highlight for me where I said "only young talent matters". However, our team DOES have young talent. Unless you consider a 25 year old Yao, a 26 year old TMac, and a 23 year old Head to be old.... Two players meaning Yao and TMac right? Would you be happy to know that if one of them ever goes down again, the whole team goes down too? Wouldn't you want the Rockets to at least have a winning chance EVEN if TMac or Yao goes down? Bringing in the right guys to replace them (e.g. Battier) will only result in another first round exit. What we really need are BETTER players to replace them. SO far I don't see that happening.
