ACTUALLY...we would only have the MLE...it's a trade exception...? How long does that last? Oh well.. I still like the simple trade of giving Glen Rice + a 2nd round pick for the 9.5 million dollar trade exception. Is there an 8.5 million dollar trade exception? Then we attempt to sign Odom for about 9 million average? And Clippers should match it...and then we match Posey's...who else is left? Or we can sign a bunch of role players like Derrick Coleman and Stephen Jackson and Jon Barry. Either way.....if we don't do this.....and Glen Rice's contract expires, we will still be over the cap and will not be able to sign anyone unless we make some other moves not involving Rice... I think the Rockets should do this. It helps both the Rockets and the Jazz!
<i>I still like the simple trade of giving Glen Rice + a 2nd round pick for the 9.5 million dollar trade exception. Is there an 8.5 million dollar trade exception? Then we attempt to sign Odom for about 9 million average? </i> There's no set amounts for trade exceptions. When you make a trade and take back less that 85% of what you gave up, you get a trade exception for the difference. In the case discussed, Rice and his $9M salary would be traded for a draft pick. Since draft picks count $0, for the purpose of trades, then we'd be taking back $9M less in salary than we shipped off. That would give us a $9M trade exception. A trade exception can only be used in a trade, not for signing free agents. The only way that you could use the trade exception to get Odom would be in a sign and trade. That won't happen. You are allowed to break the trade exception up and use it in multiple trades.
Nice idea sanjay.Brilliant work as usual aelliott. Unfortunately we are in a lot of trouble with our big contracts.
6 millions is not get your Odom. If I were Utah, why don't I throw in 9 million for Odom instead for Rice. This not mutual trade since Utah has not gain. They have money but they will not spend money unwisely. Keith O'connor is on the hot seat can't pull a trigger, but if he pulls this deal, you will see his resume on Monster.com pretty soon.
I still dont fully understand this 9 million dollar trade exception thingy. It can't be use to sign a player, so what is it really good for? Nike mentions the sign and trade, but I highly doubt Clippers would sign Odom and trade hit to us for crap. Lets say we get this trade exception. In theory then you would be able to trade Moochie for Rasheed Wallace then right? That is if they are only nine mill apart? By the way I also just want to say this is the best trade scenario by far posted on this board.
<i> still dont fully understand this 9 million dollar trade exception thingy. It can't be use to sign a player, so what is it really good for? Nike mentions the sign and trade, but I highly doubt Clippers would sign Odom and trade hit to us for crap. Lets say we get this trade exception. In theory then you would be able to trade Moochie for Rasheed Wallace then right? That is if they are only nine mill apart? </i> What's not to understand? Sounds to me like you've got it. Nowdays, there are numerous teams that are willing to give up more talent if it means reducing the salary cap. A trade exception would give us the ability to offer salary cap relief to another team in exchange for better talent.
Do we really think that the Rockets organization have the balls to pull this kind of thing though? To use the exception on SIGNING a player outright, don't we have to wait for it to expire? Or is it counted as pure cap space as well as an exception in a trade?
I think once Lamar Odom is off the market, alot of team will be reaching Utah. Smarter ones act first. CD act quick.
Aelliott, U r not saying that giving Rice away gives us an exception of $10.4 to use anyway we wish without regard to salary cap? For 03-04, salary cap is $43.8 mil. My calculation gives Rockets' salary of $56.6 mil (includind Rice's $10.4 mil, Pike's $2.5, and Maloney's $2.7 mil) Taking Rice's salary away, we will still be over the cap and we won't be able to do anything, will we? (except for the MCE .... that we always have)
<i>U r not saying that giving Rice away gives us an exception of $10.4 to use anyway we wish without regard to salary cap? For 03-04, salary cap is $43.8 mil. My calculation gives Rockets' salary of $56.6 mil (includind Rice's $10.4 mil, Pike's $2.5, and Maloney's $2.7 mil) Taking Rice's salary away, we will still be over the cap and we won't be able to do anything, will we? (except for the MCE .... that we always have) </i> If we trade Rice for a draft pick only, then we'd get a trade exception that is equal in value to Rice's salary. That's somewhere around $9M or so. The trade exception is only valid in a trade, it can't be used to sign a free agent. Normally, if you are over the cap (which the Rocket's are), then the difference in the salaries that you send out and receive in a trade must be within 15% of each other. The trade exception lets you take on additional salary, up to the amount of the exception, in a trade. Here's an example: Let's say that Moochie is making $4M/year. Under normal circumstances, if we traded Moochie, the most we could take back would be 115% of his salary or $4.6M. Now, if we had a $9M trade exception, then we'd be allowed to take back an additional $9M for Moochie. So, theoretically, we could trade Moochie for a player that made up to $13.6M. This is an exception so, the fact that we're over the cap doesn't matter as far as a trade goes. The MCE would still be the best that we could as far as a free agent signing. The trade exception would make us appealing trade partners for teams that were trying to dump salary. You could trade us a high priced player and take back alot less salary. This is essentially what Atlanta did with Glen Robinson. They gave away Robinson and all they really got in return was a $11M reduction team payroll, once Brandon retires in January. We can let Rice's contact expire and free up $9M next offseason. If we do a deal like the one described in this thread, then we're probably adding more salary long term. If you trade for a SAR or Wallace (assuming that you resign him), then that $9M in additional salary will stay on the books for several more years.
<i>To use the exception on SIGNING a player outright, don't we have to wait for it to expire? Or is it counted as pure cap space as well as an exception in a trade? </i> The trade exception can only be used in a trade. It can't be used to sign a free agent. Realistically, in terms of signing free agents, we're not going to be able to do better than the MCE for a few years. This idea was interesting because it provides a potential way for the Rockets to acquire top flight players without having cap space.
How can we use this trade exception of $9 mil? Can we use it in a later trade? Or did u say the trade exception simply allow us to give Rice away? Here u suggest we could give Rice away to Utah. Save the exception and use it in a different trade that involve Mooch. R u sure about this? This is a different trade altogether. They traded Glenn for Brandon who have about the same salary. Whether Brandon retires or not has nothing to do with the trade or the contracts.
I see. So basically, getting Odom is out of the question, because the Clipps wouldn't sign and trade him to us. However, Rasheed Wallace becomes a VERY real option because then we could send 9M exception and Glen Rice for Rasheed Wallace. What this does for them is that they pay 9M times 2 less luxury tax, and the rest of the 9M expires with Rice's contract next season. So they would be saying lots of money on this deal, wouldn't they? I think they would do this deal if we agreed to takin Ruben Patterson (Posey replacement) and sent them our CHicago obligation, right? They save the amount of the exception TIMES 2, as well as an extra 4M because Rasheed makes around 15M and we're sending 18M+ in salaries, and we're also taking back Patterson. Yao/Cato Wallace/MoT/Griffin Patterson/Boki/Griffin Mobley/Pike Francis/Norris We're loaded at PF, but I'm sure we can shed either MoT or Griffin. I'd love to take back either of their SG's (Anderson or Bonzi) for Mobley and MoT maybe? MoT is insurance and experience in case Randoph doesn't pan out, and Mobley plays the backup role that one of the SG's would've played ANYWAY.
<i>How can we use this trade exception of $9 mil? Can we use it in a later trade? Or did u say the trade exception simply allow us to give Rice away? </i> By trading Rice for much less money, we'd acquire the trade exception. We'd then have one year to use the exception. We could use the entire exception for one deal, or break it up across several trades. <i>Here u suggest we could give Rice away to Utah. Save the exception and use it in a different trade that involve Mooch. R u sure about this?</i> Yes, that's how it works. We don't need an exception to trade Rice to Utah for only a draft pick. From our side, you are always allowed to trade for less salary. From Utah's side, they'd have enought cap space to cover Rice's salary, so the 15% trade rule wouldn't apply. As I said above, once we acquired the trade exception, it's good for one year. <i>This is a different trade altogether. They traded Glenn for Brandon who have about the same salary. Whether Brandon retires or not has nothing to do with the trade or the contracts.</i> You missed my point. That mention was not meant to be an example of a trade exception. It was meant to illustrate that nowdays, teams are willing to give up talented players (Robinson) and take back very little in return, in order to free up cap space. The fact that a deal like that is attractive to other teams is what makes a trade exception a valuable thing to a team like the Rockets. Just to be correct, Brandon retiring has everything to do with that trade. If Brandon doesn't retire, then his salary would stay on the books. That would mean that they effectively gave Robinson away and got no salary cap relief and downgraded their teams talent level.
If this trade exception is allowed without regard to cap space, it would create some bizzare situations. Let's say we give away some players, Rice, MoT, Cato to one or several teams and obtain some trade exceptions. We then trade those exceptions to a team like Portland who is way over cap space. In turn, Portland now have these exceptions that allow to them to trade for any other players they want, without regard to their cap situation. I know this is trading players under contracts and a slight different from FAs but in effect it is of no difference. (Getting FA only means the contract is negotiated and signed after rather than getting a player that had negotiated and signed a contract). NBA law is written to stop high spending teams from signing FAs, why would it allow them to get contracted players?
Let's say we give away some players, Rice, MoT, Cato to one or several teams and obtain some trade exceptions. Mo and Cato aren't going to get us any trade exceptions. The only reason Rice is attractive to teams is because he is in his last year of contract. Maurice and Cato have multiple years left. We then trade those exceptions to a team like Portland who is way over cap space. If Portland was looking for a trade exception they could trade Rasheed Wallace to Utah. I think he is also in his last year. They wouldn't even need us to obtain the exception. In turn, Portland now have these exceptions that allow to them to trade for any other players they want, without regard to their cap situation. If for some God forsaken reason Utah did take Mo, Rice and Cato and gave us about a $22 Million exception it would be hard to trade it to Utah. What exactly are we going to do with an exception that big? You want Damn Stoudamire, Rasheed and Ruben Patterson? We would be way over the luxury tax threshold and Leslie isn't as loaded or stupid as Mark Cuban. It would be even hard for Portland to use an exception that big. I know this is trading players under contracts and a slight different from FAs but in effect it is of no difference. (Getting FA only means the contract is negotiated and signed after rather than getting a player that had negotiated and signed a contract). NBA law is written to stop high spending teams from signing FAs, why would it allow them to get contracted players? What exactly is the NBA suppose to do regarding this situation? There are always loopholes and this one is rather good. NBA doesn't really care if you go over the cap. They know there is a tax system in place and most teams won't even think about venturing in that area. Its not as if this is baseball and the Yankees can just sign everybody in the blink of an eye.
<i>Let's say we give away some players, Rice, MoT, Cato to one or several teams and obtain some trade exceptions. We then trade those exceptions to a team like Portland who is way over cap space. In turn, Portland now have these exceptions that allow to them to trade for any other players they want, without regard to their cap situation. NBA law is written to stop high spending teams from signing FAs, why would it allow them to get contracted players? </i> Think of it this way: 1. How does a team get a trade exception? They take back less salary in a trade. So, for Portland to get a trade exception for a Wallace deal, they'd have to take back less salary. For the sake of argument, let's say Wallace makes $13M and they take back Moochie at $4M. They'd get a $9M trade exception. 2. Now Portland could go do a deal where they take back an extra $9M in salary by using the trade exception. So, what is the net change in Portlands payroll? Give or take the normal 15%, they took back $9M less in the first deal and took on $9M more in the 2nd deal. In the end it all nets out, so why isn't that fair? If you take back less than you have to in one deal, you're allowed to make up that difference in future deals for the nex year. Sounds fair to me.
