6 years later! The season ticket holders who filed suit against them in 1998 weren't thrilled with it. Had they kept that core together, they may have won a lot more. But I don't want to model the Florida Marlins on "how to build a franchise," anyway. I think people have this notion that if you trade away talent for younger talent, it will necessarily work out...like it's a panacea. But in baseball, you're talking about guys who haven't even faced major league pitching yet.
See Royals, Pirates, Nationals/Expos. To a lesser extent the Indians, A's, Brewers, & Rays. The Twins probably do it best, and they haven't won/been to a WS since 1991. I can't remember when they last won a series.
Why not? Because you won't get attached to players as much? You'd really rather be the Astros paying players way past their prime just because their hometown favorites? I think the common phrase is, "Gee it would suck to be a Marlins fan!" Uhhhh, no, I wish the Astros were more like them. Their franchised started in 1993 and they have two World Series rings. How many do the Astros have? How long have the Astros been around? Would you trade the Rockets two championships for a franchise that makes the playoffs every year but fails to win the big one? The Marlins organization catches a lot of grief, but in the end, they have two more championships than the Astros in about a fourth of the time. I will agree that trading for prospects doesn't guarantee you will have a better team in the future, any trade for a prospect is a gamble. But at this point, it's a gamble I'm willing to take to try to get us back to that championship level.
they have zero fan base, in spite of their 2 championships. zero. there is no connection with that team because they don't keep a "team" around long enough to get connected to. feel sorry for marlins fans??? hell, i didn't know there were any marlins fans. i see about 15 people in the stands on any given night. they've been very fortunate to win 2 titles. good for them. the health of their franchise long-term ain't dandy. what they've done has not built a healthy franchise at all.
Yes, and it's been fun. But I'm ready to see a team built that we can look at in April and see World Series potential, and not depend on some miracle run to even make the playoffs. I realize that any year nothing is a given and crazy things happen, but our odds haven't been good the last 3 years or so. It's clear that we are at a transition point- we have a lot of temporary stopgaps in the lineup (Matsui, Keppinger, Blum, Pudge), and two of our best players are aged and overpaid (Lee, Tejada). And we only have two starting pitchers for now that we can count on long-term. We should get what we can for those 6 players in bold (and Valverde) if we can get anything relevant, and have some young guys over the next few years that we can pair with Pence, Bourn, and the last few years we'll have Roy and Berkman in their prime.
NO NO NO..The Marlins are a joke of a franchise...They have two titles and thats it! The Stros are a far better organization because every year we have a chance to win...in 97 the Marlins bought there title and in 03 they did it the right way but that may never happen again with the economics of MLB! I am willing to suck for 2 or 3 years to rebuild but no constantly the Marlins will trade away Hanley Ramirez in a yr or so and bam start over. If you want to look at a franchise in FL its Tampa Bay under Hunsicker they are doing things to stay competitive every year in a super tough division! By the way the Rockets have been mostly competitive after the two titles and didnt tear down there team for financial reason so I would not even begin to compare the Marlins to the Rockets!
I think what we perceive to be "miracle runs" is common in baseball. What I'd call a miracle run is what we did in 04 and 05. But if we find ourselves in the playoffs this year, it won't be a miracle. In the NBA you can look ahead at the start of each season and pretty much pencil in the conference finalists. All season long we were told how inevitable a Laker championship would be. That doesn't happen in baseball. Too much luck involved in the playoffs.
Its a difference of opinion for sure. I would much rather have the Astros then the Marlins. The Astros have pretty good since the mid-90s. The Marlins have been to the playoffs twice. I love getting attached to the players. I would have hated to say that Biggio or Bags had to finish elsewhere like Olajuwon did. I never complained about Biggio or Bags when they clearly weren't the best option for the team because they meant so much to me. I would have rather lost 100 games than see them in another uni. I hope Oswalt & Berkman stay Astros.
What are you basing the zero fan base or connection with the team on? Looking at sportscenter and seeing empty seats? What they've done is won two World Series rings, and in the end that's the bottom line. They play in the Dolphins stadium, so their attendance generally looks a lot worse, although it has been bad. However, they are building a brand new stadium in Miami, which should help greatly with their fan base. A lot of fans simply don't go to their games because its rainy or 100 degrees and humid. Their new stadium has a retractable roof, so their fan base should increase greatly. They also had the 7th highest TV rating last year. A lot of you just simply don't know what you're talking about with regards to that franchise. And sorry, any franchise with a world series ring is better than one without. No matter how much better the Mavs may have been than the Rockets over the last decade, we have 2 and they have 0. We bring that argument up anytime a Jazz fan tries to talk smack - funny how we conveniently forget it when discussing baseball. The health of their franchise long-term is in the hands of the best SS in the game, obtained from trading Beckett to the Red Sox. I'm not saying we will get anything close to Hanley for Tejada, the point is moreso of them trading good players for good prospects. It's worked out for them, it hasn't for others - but it's a gamble I think we should be looking at.
Are you serious?? http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/marlins3.shtml 2008 Marlins attendance - 1,335,075 2008 NL Average 2,755,082 2007 Marlins attendance - 1,370,511 2007 NL Average 2,756,384 2004 Marlins attendance (the year after they won it all!!!) - 1,723,105 2004 NL Average 2,512,690 zero fan base they couldn't draw 2,000,000 freaking fans the year after winning a world series
WOW..I would read up on the Marlins a bit more They will trade Hanley Ramirez very soon as they have already had talks with teams. They took forever to get a stadium approved and still not sure the status of that. Look up North to Arlington...as much as I dislike Dallas they support there squad heat or no heat. Marlins attendance has been bad ever since they got there. New stadiums sure helped Pittsburgh, San Diego, Washington and now even Baltimore...
i don't care what your tv ratings are. if you can't put 2,000,000 butts in the seats the year after winning a WS, something is wrong. this team is no where close to league average in attendance...no where close.
And that shows you know nothing about that franchise. Unless you can link me to something credible, you completely made this up. Hanleys also locked up for the next 5-6 years, IIRC.
Trading away the guy leading the NL in hits and doubles when you're 2 games out in the pennant race would be idiotic and an insult to all the fans who support this team and go to the games. We've got a realistic shot at the playoffs this season, and you grab that brass ring every time you can, because you never know what will happen if you get into the playoffs. And I disagree that we shouldn't or won't offer arbitration. Miggy's making 14 mil this season, and I'd bet whatever he gets in free agency, or arbitration, will be less than that.
So TV ratings don't factor into 'fan base' because it doesn't support your argument? I'm not arguing they have great fan support - that's obvious from the numbers. But I think it is deceiving, as their TV ratings are strong, and the Florida weather + giant stadium they're currently forced to play in affects peoples perception. But yeah, giant stadium or not, the attendance totals are low. Does that mean they're a bad franchise? I don't think so.
We were considered WS contenders in 2004 & even 2005, then we way underacheived barely made the playoffs and had our greatest successes. In the late 90s, in particular 98 & 99 we looked like WS contenders and got bounced in the 1st round every time. We are still a team of home grown talent with other players plugged around them just like in those years.
I'd rather have two WS rings and be an "awful franchise" then overpay players late in their career just to see them play and never win a ring.
Yeah it does. Miami is a bad sports town in general because of all the displaced/retired people living there. Its actually sad that the Mets are more loved in Miami then the Marlins.
