Forget the complicated trade speculation for a few posts...hehe, Let's talk about Tacoma young rebounders and our neighbor Dallas who would you rather have: Najera, Donnell Harvey, or Etan Thomas 3 PFs from last draft...how could they want to keep all of them??? [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited January 11, 2001).]
The big problem with trading for Outlaw is that both teams are over the cap and he is, I believe, a full BYC player, which would make any trade a pain in the A$$. If 1/2 of Outlaws salary = the Bryce Drew trade exception, that would work. Otherwise it would either be a really, really big trade to float the BYC salary trade penalty under 15% of the total deal, or one of the teams still under the cap (the Clippers and the Bulls are the only two which come to mind) would have to be involved to balance out the BYC salary inequity. In short, BYC makes Bo Outlaw a tough guy to trade for. ------------------
That's right, stat man needs some stats. Let's get Fortson then...oops...tooo late, GS won't be trading a 17rpg man. I've found...Stat men have no patience!!
"Which Tacoma rebounder do you like most: Najera Donnell Harvey Etan Thomas" Out of that trio, I would take Donnell Harvey. He is the most raw of the bunch but also has the most upside. In the long run, I feel that he will be the best rebounder out of that trio. Harvey gives 100% hustle, heart and work ethic every night, he possesses that quick jumping pogo stick type ability, has very long arms (roughly 7-6 wingspan) and has an excellent set of hands. His offense is raw and his body needs development, but I would take the intangibles that cant be taught and develop the rest of his game. Dakota, not sure how much you've seen of him but I know you love players with fire and passion so Harvey would be on your list. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
Am I the only one who wants Jamie Fieck? ------------------ SUCK POLICE!!!!!! To point out individuals or teams that have managed to reach the pinnacle of SUCKINESS!!!!! ----- JAZZ SUCK!!!!!!!
Regarding the question Who'd I rather have I agree with MManal.Keep in my mind the only one of the three I've seen play Najera but here's what I think anyway.Etan Thomas is the most solid of the three with the best chance to be a contributing player;he can rebound,block shots and from what I hear is a good defender.His offensive game is limited but he's a decent athlete.Harvey is more of a risk but has greater upside with the potential and the heart to be one of the best rebounders in the league.As was mentioned his arms are long,long,long and his atleticism is borderline freakish but he is young with an underdeveloped offensive game.Najera,can you say bum?I honestly don't expect this guy to be in the league for more than two or three years.I've heard Harvey described as Rodman without the hair or the uh....well,for lack of a better word problems and that's good enough for me. ------------------ Now chew through my ball sack
Personally I like Etan over the other two, with Harvey a close second. Mmanal is probably right about Harvey's upside being greater, but Thomas is built like a rock and can block shots as well. Dallas is loaded at that position so he can't get a sniff, but I think if given the chance he could be a good rotation guy for most NBA teams right now, whereas it's going to take Harvey some time to develop. Najera's all heart and you have to respect that, but I don't know if he'll ever significantly contribute on a regular basis anywhere... ------------------
couple of excerpts from the vancouversun: http://www.vancouversun.com/grizzlies/stories/010111/5080966.html First, let me say Shareef's character hasn't taken a nose dive; neither have his skills. He continues to improve, maybe not as dramatically as he did in his first few years. He will likely be an NBA all-star one day. He's already been a Dream Team member. His credentials are solid. You are not going to get comparable, straight-up value for Shareef in a trade. Or at least what is perceived as fair value. Orlando isn't going to part with Tracy McGrady. Denver isn't going to let Antonio McDyess go. You're not going to get Kevin Garnett or Chris Webber. In other words, a readily identifiable star of better or like quality. A player fans could easily accept as a suitable replacement. But what you might get is a quality veteran and a solid up-and-comer who could, ultimately, give the team as much or more as it's losing in Shareef. I'm not going to try and come up with scenarios I think might work for this team. That's a mug's game anyway. Sounds like a price we may be able to meet. A combination of Hakeem, Plus Walt or KT and Los would fit the description the writer gave of an acceptable trade, don´t you agree? Specially since they would have the benefit of capspace next year and dumping Reeves too. The more i think about this, the more it sounds likely. ------------------ "I have posted so much that what I say must be true"
Yeah, i got that too. But ownership is not about winning now. Ownership cares about balancing the losses, and maybe even making sure that there are enough empty seats to justify a relocation. catch this, from the same article: But let me also say this. Any trade has to be about winning now. I don't care if this is the first year for this new management and coaching group. It's year six for the fans. Any trade of top players for future draft picks is not on. All it would do is signal to everyone, including the league, that there is no interest in keeping the team here. Something has to be done. Things can't continue like this much longer. ----- a lot of sources think that the fears the writer expressed of having no interst of keeping the team over there are right on the money. which makes our case even stronger, since we DO have a fair share of picks to throw in the deal. ------------------ "I have posted so much that what I say must be true"
houston trades: Walt Williams $4,250,000 to minnesota houston trades: Hakeem Olajuwon $16,700,000 to minnesota TOTAL: $20,950,000 minnesota trades: Radoslav Nesterovic $1,123,560 to houston minnesota trades: Kevin Garnett $19,607,350 to houston TOTAL: $20,730,910 And of course our first round pick for every year that Minnesotta doesn't have one. Since were Dreaming I thought I might throw that one out. Young, great rebounder, very respected..... ------------------ "We need to fockass".....Dream back in the day [This message has been edited by Scarface (edited January 11, 2001).]
Here's another thought for you guys to chew on. I went back & reread Clutch's retraction comment & all of his previous posts (in this thread). He stated that the deal that was originally discussed is not the one that's being worked on. I'm not real sure about which one he was referring to, but he did mention the Shareef trade in one of his posts. Heypartner reported that he heard Rudy say, he told Langhi, that when (not if) he gets him in the rotation that he'll be loyal to him as he has been with other players. Rudy also stated that he wants Cat to start at the SG & that Shandon would be the starting SF. By the way, Shandon has had some really good games playing the SF position lately. All this makes me think that Walt is in any deal that we make. Given these facts & some that I can't quite remember at the moment, maybe we're barking up the wrong tree with the Shareef trade speculation. So, I came up with another idea of what the trade that's in the works might be. This deal is assuming that the 3 team deal does not involve us & that because we have a hand shake deal, that will occur after some other things fall into place, we must have a totally different deal working. It's also been reported in another post somwhere, either in this thread or another one, that Reinsdorf has told Krause to make some deals in order to turn the team around. Having said that, I don't think it's any secret that Chicago wants Bibby & that we, because they owe us a pick or picks for Drew, are intereferring in that process. They have to make a deal with us to free up their draft picks for trade purposes, so here's what I came up with. I used RealGM to verify if this deal would even work & it does. Chicago sends Hoiberg/Artest/Drew to Vancouver Atlanta sends Roshown McLeod to Chicago Atlanta sends Wright/Mutombo to Vancouver Vancouver sends Bibby to Chicago Vancouver sends Reeves/Shareef to Atlanta Chicago would probably send their #1 pick this year to Vancouver. I'm not sure if the players are correct, but something like this could occur. Throw in draft picks where ever appropriate. After that deal goes down, then our hand shake deal could go down. Houston sends KT/Walt/Cato to Chicago Chicago sends Miller/Fizer/Crawford to Houston We throw in the pick that they owe us. We get a better rebounder in Miller, & give up on the injury prone Cato. We swap KT for Fizer, which some posters have stated, would be beneficial to both teams, because of the type of games they have & we get Crawford for the #1 pick they owe us & for helping them out. If it's not Crawford, then maybe it's Benjamin. I say Crawford, because that is the only thing that I see that would prevent this deal from going down now. They wouldn't give up Crawford until they had secured Bibby. Brand has been playing the center position lately for Chicago & Miller has started only 4 of the last 10 games. Even when he gets into the game, they aren't giving him many minutes. When he plays 20+ minutes he seems to get double digit rebounds. I don't know if this would even be close, but it gives you something else to think about. What's your take on this idea & how could it be improved while stying within the salary restrictions? Another note: This deal would allow us to keep Dream & receive the benefit of the cap relief or make another deal later. ------------------
Let's trade Cato, Williams, and Thomas to anyone with a 1st roud pick and some players in the final year of their contract. We then package our picks (between 3 & 5 1st rounders) for a top 3 pick and grab one of the big men. I don't really follow the college game but I keep hearing that this is a deep draft for big men. Then we resign Hakeem for 1 year. Between Hakeem, Collier and our draftee, we should be pretty solid up front. Man I haven't posted in a while and this one really sucks. Maybe I'm just rusty, but if I can't come up with a better post I may have to go back to the bench. ------------------ "Stranger things have happened, but none stranger than this" - Commentator after a parachutist landed in the ring of a Holyfield fight
Actually, Hottoddie, your original scenario is what I like, with some modifications. Something could be doing down real soon. Then again, nothing may happen. But consider: 1. All our centers have mysterious little ailments. We want the playoffs. We'd play at least one of them if we could. 2. According to nbacom and bskball: a) Orlando and Vancouver are looking to swap players. Vancouver needs to lose a power forward; Orlando needs boards. This makes sense. Mike Miller wouldn't scream too much if he was in Vancouver; Othella would love Orlando. Their salaries match perfectly. b) The team that takes Shareef also takes Reeves. Cuban doesn't have enough pieces for this. 3. Chicago needs a center and a solid point guard. Fizer is extraneous. 4. Vancouver needs someone with 'tude. (Fizer?) Swift isn't the perfect solution (but they'll keep working with him, I'm sure). 5. Chicago has no intention of keeping Brad Miller. 6. Fizer was out last game with "back spasms." I tried this on RealGM and substituted Artest where I would have placed Drew; their salaries are very close (Drew currently has the condition placed on him with the future pick, so I don't think RealGM would process it). So, if Houston frees up the pick with Chicago, this trade will pass: VANCOUVER RECEIVES: Hakeem Olajuwon. Mike Miller. Bryce Drew. Marcus Fizer. (next year's #1 pick from Chicago) CHICAGO RECEIVES. Walt Williams. Mike Bibby. Kelvin Cato. (#1 pick from Houston [ours/Milwaukee's/Detroit's/Orlando's]) ORLANDO RECEIVES. Othella Harrington. HOUSTON RECEIVES. Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Brad Miller. Big-Ass Country. If Mo stays on, he'll have to take the mid-level exception. But I think he would. Shandon? Early bird? Anyway, Othella wouldn't be here to push him out the door. Our lineup: Big Ass Country. Miller. Collier. Mo. KT. Shareef. Dullard. Damn Lanky. Cat. Shandon. Steve. Mooch. Chicago would also come out sitting pretty. Vancouver would use its picks to get a good center and really solid point guard (reunite Tinsley and Fizer?) Orlando would get its power forward, sliding Outlaw to small forward (then, when Hill returns next year, to backup 3/4). There's a chance of sending KT or Collier to Chicago, if it'll work under the cap, rather than a #1 pick. Also, Harrington for Miller could be done separately from the proposed trade. If our new starting lineup is indicative of anything (Steve/Cat/Shandon), and if Shareef wants to play the 4, Mo might leave. Better yet: send him to Detroit for their pick, with the stipulation that yes, you could have had him for free if you don't get Webber, but will you get Webber? Just keep the other pick you owe us and we'll call it even. You need another scorer now anyway. (Detroit has a 4 million dollar trade exception, and Joe Smith is acting like he doesn't really want to stick around.) At the same time, Mo as the starting 4 and Shareef as the starting 3 doesn't suck too much at all. Well, I know I need a life, but other than that, what do you think of this proposal? Be gentle, I beg you. ------------------
Man...I know quite a bit about basketball and all the salary rules and that good stuff but I dont know if I could come up w/ a 4-way deal that works under the cap like that. Anyway, I doubt a deal that huge would go down during the middle of a season, unless maybe at the all-star break. But, it would get us what we need, besides Big Continent. I'd like to see Othella come back if we could somehow get him in the deal to give us some of that post up offense. ------------------
I say any trade going down is remote! First of all, Hakeem and Williams are 2 very difficult guys to trade. Hakeem's contract is to big and he may not play next year. Big risk for a team trading away a top player. Williams is too streaky. I don't think a lot of team are jumping on this bandwagon. Cato may be the only guy with serious trade value, but who would want him? ------------------ The guns are cocked and the soldiers are in place, it's time to march and let the battles decide the war.
Williams is too streaky. I don't think a lot of team are jumping on this bandwagon. I think Walt has some trade value. He is streaky, IMO, because he doesn't get enough shots to get into a groove. Shooters have to have x-number of shots to find their sweet spot. A team who needs a shooter recognizes his value and might make an offer. ------------------ "Salt Lake City, Utah. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villany." --Olaju-Won Kenobi, to young jedi Steve (Fran)'chiseWalker
Roxtxia, That's an interesting proposal, but I'm really beginning to think that we're not going to be involved in the Shareef sweepstakes. I do believe that we have some deal that is going to happen with Chicago. They have to deal with us eventually, because of the draft pick situation. Besides, if Shandon keeps playing the SF position like he has lately, we won't necessarily need Shareef as much as we need help with the center spot. Not that we couldn't use Shareef if he was within our grasp. What we really need is for CLUTCH to give us another hint or at least an update. ------------------
