No Banchero is not the consensus 3rd pick currently he is currently being projected at 1 by some in this very thread. I have no idea what data you are using to say Jennings had more success or what it has to do with KPJ I can name random guys like Chauncy Billups that had worse success than KPJ and went on to be great players and Billups was thought to have attitude issues as well Is that a better comp than Jennings?
I’m one of those people who have Banchero 1 but the general consensus among scouts is that he will go third to the Rockets. Whether that happens or not, that is the general consensus and it doesn’t really matter what me or anyone else on this board thinks. We don’t really count. I used Jennings as an example of a player thrust into a high usage role. He is interchangeable with many players over the years who put up numbers on a high usage role on a bad team. I can’t speak for KPJ and I’ll give him next year but a lot of those players are fools gold and it becomes apparent when the usage and shot attempts decline when placed in a more specified role on a better team. If you can’t score efficiently relative to high volume, I’m going to worry about efficiency on lower volume. The amount of freedom KPJ got as a scorer won’t be that way on a good team. 7 three pointers a game is one example of this. KPJ has the ball in his hands constantly and if his efficiency on high volume was bad, I don’t understand how people can’t rationally think his decision making and inefficiency in part lead to the worst record in the league. KPJ isn’t exempt from that and while he played well at the end of the year (he did the same the year before) he also shot the team out of games. I have hope he gets better but overall, he seemed to have regressed in his shooting from the previous year and his playmaking numbers didn’t exactly improve. The year before was a small sample size though and he basically went off in silly season just like he did this year. I’ve seen him do that 2 years in a row now against B teams. That is a very small sample size. I need to see it in games that count. If you think that is too fickle a request, check out Bruno Coboclo’s stretch of games when he played for Memphis during that time of the year. There are numerous examples of silly season heroes just off the top of my head. Im giving him a pass on his playmaking as it was his first year as a point guard. He didn’t show me what I personally wanted to see and I’m skeptical he can be that kind of player but I’ll give him the chance to prove me wrong. What I cannot excuse though, is a talented player who’s strength is scoring averaging 12 ppg on very bad efficiency and high volume and usage up until the last month or so of the season. The amount of missed shots when you factor in the volume, clearly hurt the Rockets more than his 12ppg. Scoring is supposed to be his strength regardless of his position. Forget about star. If he wants to be a good NBA player he has to do better than that. Period. Jennings is a decent example as both shot a similar percentage except Jennings did it on even higher volume and averaging more points in the process. He didn’t attempt nearly as many 3’s either. I’m using his 3rd year in the league as a baseline. If KPJ further increased his volume, I’m not sure his shooting percentage wouldn’t dip even further. All of the supporting stats are basically the same. Jennings is just one example of many who have put up numbers inefficiently as a focal point of a bad team. If KPJ didn’t turn it on at the end of the year, Jennings, who played better as is, would have been too far ahead of him to even compare the two. Rockets fans as they did for most of the year, would be ready to cut KPJ but everything is what have you done for me lately and his last games were great regardless of which B team he was beating up on. When a player is afforded that kind of volume, it’s logical that sometimes they will have huge games despite overall efficiency concerns. KPJ 50 point game, Jennings 55 point game. It’s impressive to score that much but I don’t want to be fooled by it. What you do over the course of an entire season matters. As long as he’s a Rocket I’m down with him but he needs to show the Rockets significant improvement if he wants a contract and even more improvement from there if he wants to start for this team moving forward. Wall is almost off the books and there are a ton of young talented free agents hitting the market next few years. He needs to prove he is worth the investment over those other options and it needs to be with tangible results. There are plenty of young players with enormous talent. Also, Billups struggled early and is a good example of a player turning it around but keep in mind, Billups didn’t have the volume KPJ had last year or even close to it in a single season. Not once.
Once again that is not the general consensus and has never been it has been the consensus of rando's on twitter and tnow that the real scouts are talking he is being mocked at 1. So you are cherry-picking stats to make a point even when they play nothing alike and not the same size. Seems legit. Like I said he could as easily be Chauncey Billups and keep ascending.
So you have a problem with him taking 7 three point attempts per game as the best catch and shoot 3 point shooting starter in the league and as an overall 38% 3 point shooter......I'm curious, how'd you feel about Jalen Green taking 7 three point attempts per game as a 34% 3 point shooter? I mean, you must have REALLY hated that right?
Have Chet Holmgren or Jabari Smith even worked out for the Rockets? How am I cherry picking stats? Explain that? Jennings shot the exact percentage from the field with almost the same exact supporting stats. They both did it on high volume except Jennings had the same field goal % on even higher volume. If anything that would indicate he was a better scorer than KPJ in his third year. How can you possibly argue against that? If you want to say KPJ averaged under 16ppg on 14 attempts a game shooting .420 for the year, which is generous, by all means you are free to think that is “good”. Cherry picking would be focusing on the last month of the season only and not acknowledging an entire year of 12ppg on abysmal shooting numbers before that month. Who is cherry picking?
Your cherry-picking stats from one year and it was Jennings's best year and they play nothing alike. You are cherry-picking. Jennings's efg was lower and he shot worse from 3. Jennings also had played many more minutes in the NBA than KPJ had going into their 3 years. I am not the one saying anything about what KPJ did last year I am just showing you how **** a comp of Jennings is. Jennings also shot more per game. I have no idea what Smith or Chet working out for Houston has to do with anything.
Let’s focus exclusively on KPJ then. Did he score efficiently last year, yes or no? Without cherry picking the last month of the season, did our starting point guard play well averaging 12ppg on .42 shooting. Yes or no? It is astounding to me that people think Porter JR will become Ja Morant in time. Regardless of where he lines up, this is KPJ’s third season as a scorer. Ja had the exact same volume as KPJ his rookie year except he averaged 18ppg on .477 from the field. Ja has gotten significantly better every year. In his third season he averaged 27ppg on .493 shooting and we want to compare that to KPJ who actually regressed in his third season.
Ok let's just focus on KPJ, I don't really care about efficiency when a player is playing a different position for the 1st time and the team is going through a rebuild and that efficiency is tracking up. Nobody has claimed he is anyway near Ja Morant so I have no idea why you brought him up let's stop with the extremes there is a huge difference between Brandon Jennings and Ja Morant. Your Ja Morant rant is just a red herring I have never claimed he was Morant so it has no bearing on this conversation. No, he did not score efficiently but neither did Green, what's your point? What's hilarious is that Green comps better to Jennings than KPJ and you would be having a fit if I compared the 2.
You are talking about whole year stats and basing KPJ’s talent on that. Do you feel the same about Jalen Green? He sucked for even longer than KPJ, but was also awesome down the stretch. Ignoring improvement just to back your irrational take on KPJ. KPJ showed steady improvement throughout the year on both sides of the ball.
Yes. The logical thing to do is judge a player based on their entire year. Jalen Green hasnt proven ****. He needs to put together a full year of good play before he's anything. As far as Im concerned he hasnt proven anything. Having said that, it isnt unusual for a rookie to come on slowely and hes at the beginning of his rookie deal. I'll reserve judgement to see if he can make a jump from year 1 to year 2. KPJ is not a rookie. He is entering his fourth year. Last year was supposed to be the year he made a jump and if anything he regressed. New at the point guard? fine. But hes always been a scorer and he put up very bad numbers for a 3rd year guard with that kind of volume. Tired of hearing he needs more time when he's due for a contract soon. Rockets arent going to sign him to a longterm deal and give him the keys to the franchise because of potential. He needs to prove it with tangible results and consistency over the course of a full season. The jury is still out on Green but hes not due for a contract anytime soon. It is just very telling that the excuse for a third year guard is to compare the trajectory of his entire year to a rookie guard with 0 NBA experience.
Keep comparing a third year player to a rookie. If Green played that poorly in his third year I would not sign him to an extension. You say KPJ is trending up when he literally regressed last year. You don’t care about efficiency (as if that wasn’t obvious already) but I’m pretty sure the Rockets do. Pretending that playing a different guard position has any relevance on the kind of shots he was taking is laughable. That and comparing him to a rookie are really the excuses instead of just admitting that he has to be significantly better than he was last year.
Not to butt in on the convo, for baseline can compare it to league average for that year. If people don't care about PG labels, with position-less bball. The most efficient guard on the Rockets last year was Eric Gordon. With the log jam guards that we have, Gordon was above the rest, (KPJ, Nix, JC, Garrison, and even Green). ...that's not me saying don't trade Gordon, just putting things in perspective if we're talking about performance and efficiency. Not to mention the amount of bail out shots, the young guys (including KPJ) dumps the ball to Gordon when the play was broken. p.s. I'm using Gordon as a 'guard standard' since he's on the team. Uses the same gym, around the same coaches, in the same Silas system. Around the league, Gordon could be viewed one of the best 6th man, or a situational starter, but maybe not part of a franchise core. Offensively and defensively he's miles better some of these 'core' players that we fans are trying to crown. disclaimer: *this is not directed at anyone specifically in this thread* In general, let's set higher standards to see if these guys can at least be at Gordon's level before we say they are a future core on a Rockets playoff contending team.
Interesting lumping a third year player in with 3 rookies and an undrafted journeyman. I don’t disagree. You can say that’s what veteran leadership is but then again, Gordon was way more efficient as a rookie than KPJ in his 3rd year.
I'm talking purely on performance last year with guys on the same team. They faced the same opponents played with the same teammates. Not talking about growth trajectory. KPJ's efficiency looks very average. His TS% is below league average. For those who played meaningful minutes, Gordon's TS% is best on the squad (guards or bigs). The person that CFers want to trade, far out performs KPJ (and other guards). Yes I know we're supposed to be patient and it's a rebuild. Fans thinking maybe we'll get to 30 wins next season.... All I'm saying is, if KPJ is a supposed 'core' future piece, at least out-perform (or be closer) to the player that Rockets fans want gone. I think with all our losing, our fan's standards of a 'good' player has dropped significantly. The 'hope' factor is clouding people's perception. The numbers for improvement is slow. Remember we sat Wall out for KPJ specifically. Playing time is valuable, some of these KPJ minutes should probably go to Christopher or Nix.
Not sure why people are getting off tangent. Nobody has made any coherent argument why TF Rox should trade KPJ for Killian Hayes. If Rox want a young pg so bad there is Dalen Terry/Tyty Wash at 26 in the draft. Makes zero sense to flip KPJ now for a bust.
The reason why you won't find that kind of argument is because there isn't one. The reason certain posters would want it done is simply because they want KPJ gone. There's no telling why they got that irrational BS in their heads, but I'm sure we'll keep hearing about it.
People seem to think if KPJ has more than 5 shot attempts he is being selfish and act as if Jalen isn’t throwing up 30 shots a game we are hindering his development
OP could do himself a favor and at least post a the tiniest sprinkle of analysis or motivation behind the random trade idea. Otherwise Clutchfans will revert to default behavior and argue about what Jalen Green has proven in his rookie year on a dumpster fire team with an imbalanced roster, a first time "PG" and a lack of floor spacing.
