Did I say anything about jerry scrub? you said it not me. Go worship you're scrub lord somewhere besides here
Here's what you said: Your Lin fandom has gotten to the point where you're talking about him and not even realizing it. A Jeremy Lin superfan.....I thought all of you had left by now.
Believe whatever you want, but the fact is that you're the one constantly injecting him into every conversation. Also, you still haven't given me an answer on my tipjar wager.
If you read the proposed trades here, mostly by JayZ, the idea is not getting another proven star because that is close to impossible. The idea is trade him for high potential picks. Like I said, it would be a huge gamble, because these too are unproven. So it comes down to the judgment of the chances of getting a title with Harden and the chances of some other way that may pan out. A lot of people are saying, "Do you want to go back to being #14?" Well, that' not really a fair question. The fair question is, "Do you want to go back to the TMac era?" At this point of time, IMO, Harden is very comparable to TMac both in terms of talent and in terms of mental flaws. What remains to be seen is whether Harden will grow out of that.
"What remains to be seen is whether Harden will grow out of that." >> "unknown draft picks exceeding current Harden way down the road"
I don't think anybody is saying dump Harden for a handful beans... although a few fringe posters may lean in that direction... lol I also don't think there is a realistic expectation of trading him for 1 player that's gonna get us better results than harden has.... ... but I'd listen to offers... anybody that wouldn't is just posturing or close minded - by definition - lol... If an offer came along where I could jettison Anderson's contract, grab a couple up n coming players and squeeze out a draft pick or two.... I'd give it real consideration... Cowboys traded Herschel - and built a dynasty... James Harden wasn't considered a top 5 talent when Morey scooped him up...
Step 1 = don't listen to pundits. These are the same folk that kept Harden off any all nba teams last year and always seem to have some kind of agenda. Step 2 = I think you're over-rating any kind of change in ball movement mentality of Harden. I think he was a willing passer last year, and he's a willing passer this year. I don't think he was making any more or less of a conscious effort to move the ball. He just had it in his hands more, and was surrounded by as 3 point space system. Look, obviously Harden is a great player, better than Melo in many ways. Better assists, better efficiency generally. The comparison was more meant to speak to great stats, almost non-existent defense, unclear leadership qualities. Harden is better than Melo. My bad if insinuated otherwise.
Agreed. That's why I am still on this side of the fence. But if he continues to meltdown in the playoffs, then the chances are swinging to the other side.
when james has a bad game, chances are we lose. when lebron, kawhi have a bad game.. lamarcus alridge, or kyrie and love can get hot put up buckets for u game 6 againist the spurs was proof of this
Harden = Carmelo, was, is, and will always be an unfathomably silly Clutchfans narrative. James Harden just lead the league in assists while leading one of the best offenses in NBA history with no All Stars, yet people are truly still comparing him to Carmelo Anthony. Amazing.
think of this: spurs have multiple all stars and HOF's - kawhi, aldridge, pau, manu playing with their long time coach pop warriors have kd, steph, klay, green, ai cavs have lebron, love, kyrie while rockets have 1 star, no back up center, 2 starters in their first year, and mda in his 1st yr coaching the rockets when they lost to a 60 win team even we replaced harden with either curry or kd we wouldn't have gotten past okc and with lebron instead of harden we'll still lose to the spurs in 7
points related to Melo noted in response above. my bad if implied he is on the same level as melo. he's obviously a better player than melo. Lol, I don't know what social media has to do with it? I'm almost 40... Also, I'm not asking for constant greatness. I am asking for SOME greatness. I've asked many times... no one can answer. Point me to Harden's signature playoff series? Signature playoff moment? These guys were pretty great, MOST of the time. Some of MJ's playoff years were so absurd that it's impossible to even contextualize it. I mean the dude averaged 44 points, 6 boards, 6 assists, 2 steals and block one year in the playoffs. Granted, it was 3 games and they lost... but it's not like Harden has ever had greatness coming close to that with bad teammates around him or good teammates around him. But absolutely, it'd be crazy to expect him to be MJ. Or Lebron. Or Magic. Or Larry. Or Steph. Or Duncan. Or Kobe. Or Hakeem. Or Wade. Or Shaq. Or etc., etc, etc. Heck or Dirk. Those guys won championships by stepping up and having great playoff performances. And even for a guy like Dirk, who ABSOLUTELY had some crappy years in there, he ALSO had some great years in there, before he finally won. I am still waiting for Harden's 1 TRULY GREAT playoffs. 14/15 is as close as it gets... unfortunately its tainted by a game 6 against the clippers where he rode the bench as his teammates saved him, a game 5 against the Warriors where he set the NBA record for most turnovers in a playoff game, a game 3 against the Warriors where he came out lackadaisical, a game 1 against the Clippers where he struggled against Austin Rivers and JJ Reddick, and the team lost to a squad without their best player. Sure, Harden can't be great every game. How about he doesn't regularly lose to other squads when their best players don't even play, lol? I've been through the numbers. Harden has more bad games, and fewer great games % wise in the playoffs. Perhaps other stars do, too. Though casual glances... not as much. Give me a week and happy to check out the pure math of it. And that won't even address wtf that only the eye test can point out, like the wtf of Game 6. Lol, resorting to "this is bad posting" rhetoric. I've made my point pretty clear. It'd be great if Harden was Lebron/Kobe/MJ/Shaq esque. He's not. Won't ever be. That's ok. But I still want him to be on the level of some other stars that have led their teams to Finals appearance(s), or rings. That's what I demand as a fan. If that's not what you demand... fine, so be it. Different strokes, ya dig. But if you do demand that, then at this point it's just making excuses for what you know to be true. He has a lackadaisical style to his play. He crosses mid court at 16-18 seconds left with no defenders on him half the time. He puts in little effort defensively. He's too lackadaisical with the basketball. He relies too much on a 3 point shot that isn't as good as he thinks. He overrates his own ability to be amazing with the ball, getting hype for crossing over Enes Kanter, lol. By the numbers, he shrinks in the playoffs more than he should. He sprinkles in great games with average games with crap crap games, with wtf games. He struggles against athletic defenders with size and who have focused in, in a series, on not reaching. He refuses to move without the ball. His leadership skills include getting upset at others when they don't cover for his defensive mistakes. These are negatives, there are plenty of positives. Harden's a great player... just is he great enough? What I have not seen, from ANYONE, is a fact based rebuttal to these points. What I get in response is "2nd in MVP", "unanimous 1st team all nba". From the same folks who shat on media members last year for their voting. Or "look at the stats", or "his teammates suck" [he's been through lots of teammates now, if Harden isn't at fault here, then DM needs to be fired clear as day, we're going into year 6 here]. Or "Dirk was soft. Steph didn't play d!" [ignoring the fact that both those guys actually DID play very solid system defense]. Where is the rebuttal to what happened in his first year against the Thunder? He shot 39% from the field, had 4.5 assists to 4.5 turnovers, struggled against Thabo, and had a PER of 21 compared to 23 in the regular season. Where is the rebuttal to what happened against the Blazers? He shot 38% from the field and 29% from three, struggled against Wes Matthews and Batum, lost 2 games at home to open the series, and "directed traffic" at the end there where Lillard had his playoff moment [I'm not faulting Harden for that play specifically, but I still have no clue what he was trying to "direct"]. LOVED, LOVED, LOVED Harden in 14/15 playoffs. It's not surprising he played up to snuff and they went the furthest. Still, the performances in Game 6 against Clips, Game 5 against Warriors were more then just bad games, they were wtf games. Where is the rebuttal to what happened last year? Mind you, after a craptastic season they snuck into the playoffs and James put up a 2.6 gamescore to open the series. Where is the rebuttal to what happened this year? He did not have a god playoffs. He put up solid #s the first round, but couldn't hit the three, and too many turnovers. He ended up shooting 27.8% from three, yet took 10.5 freaking threes a game. 10.5!! He averaged 5+ to/g for the second straight year. Pretty much everyone just says, he's a top [x] player, those are hard to come by, this isn't a trend (despite it obviously being so), we need to surround him with all star players. On the last part, I agree. Unfortunately, I don't see how we add 2 all-stars to this cast. Hopefully we get lucky and can add one, though that will be tough, too. The most likely get with all-star skills is Paul Millsap. Can someone logically explain to me how even if they added Gordon Hayward and Paul Millsap in the offseason this team beats the GSW much less a healthy Spurs squad that I suspect will also add talent??
As I've already noted, if I insinuated that Harden = Melo, apologies. The truth is I didn't say that at all, but I understand why people are jumping to that conclusion. If you read what I said, which you quoted so hopefully did read I said he is looking more and more Melo like than Lebron like. Which is true. Don't play defense. Don't move without the ball. Playoff exits. That's all. As I've noted, Harden is clearly a better player than Melo ever was. Sure, perhaps. But also, consider when Kawhi or Lebron have an off offensive game, they still impact the game tremendously defensively. Harden can't.
I definitely understand and agree with this viewpoint. And this viewpoint to me screams pick one - DM or Harden. Because we're going into year 6 here. It went by FAST! How many years did T-Mac get? Traded in year 6. How many years did Francis get? Traded after year 5. How many years did Lebron give Cleveland his first run? Just 7, and that's starting as a 19 year old - he joined Miami at 26, Harden is now 27. I mean, I think we're at that point. I've been overly harsh on Harden's faults, I get that. That's just in an attempt to hammer home that we are at that point. We've given this experiment a ton of time. Want to keep riding Harden?? Fine. WTF is Morey doing then?
Awesome. Same question to you then. How often do you thinks he moves without the ball and makes backdoor cuts?
