baller4life, now i question if you even watch this year's series. the commentators CALLED HIM OUT, not me. the people who called the game CALLED HIM OUT. as a star, you must play at a certain level for the media to call you out. nobody in the media has any animosity towards joe b/c he IS a consummate professional. so his play must be the main reason right? to add to your point, you can be an all-star multiple years and be nowhere close to superstar status. 1) shawn marion is a 4x all-star and a 2x all-nba player. 2) rashard lewis is a 2x all-star 3) richard hamilton is a 3x all-star 4) joe dumars was a 6x all-star and i can go on... i admit the media swings out the word superstar way too much for players (and i think that title should only be for all-nba players, guys who are considered the best at their positions). and joe hasn't been a recipient of that. you can read game recaps and i rarely read, "superstar joe johnson." it seems awkward for me to type it. to add to another point of yours, the hawks have a pretty talented and balanced team (outside of an offensive presence). they have other scorers besides joe. their problem is they don't have another playmaker besides joe, and joe is just not good enough to handle all that load. however, their athleticism causes A TON of problems for most teams in the east. b/c of that, joe, as their best player, should have done more. when i watched this past playoff run, i seriously started to thought he was overrated (and i thought he was underrated before that b/c i do watch the hawks game and wishes he would get more national attention b/c he's one of those rare athletes who plays the game, goes about his business, never causes trouble...). but watching him play v. the heat and cavs, i was so frustrated watching joe. the lack of another go-to guy should be the sign that joe needs to do more, take his game to another level... b/c he doesn't do that, he's not a superstar or anywhere close to it. superstars GET THEIRS, regardless of the situation in the playoffs. wade had no help, he got his regardless. same with lebron. same with kobe. same with tmac when he did play in the playoffs (watch the 07-08 series when we had our best player down that year, with him + 2 other stars playing on injuries). so once again, joe is a very good player and is an all-star. but he's nowhere near a superstar, and most don't mistake him for so. and he's not rising anywhere in status in this league. and he's peaked. the only reason i would trade tmac for him is simply for durability issues.
Just commenting on your "JJ could not even dominate the undersized Delonte West" post. McGrady could not even dominate Fisher. In fact, it was kinda pathetic watching Fisher bully McGrady in the post.
Fixed. And comparing a center to a wing in terms of All-Star berths is like apples and oranges. We live in an era where players like Brad Miller, Memo Okur, Jamaal Magloire, etc. are All-Stars by default due to how scarce quality centers are. Being an All-Star as a wing player is much more difficult. Even if you want to play the numbers game -- JJ has the stats to back up his All-Star berths. So to act like players like Vince Carter, Ray Allen, etc are all All-Stars *AND* superstars while JJ is not both too is quite foolish to me.
1) dfish guarded him in spurts. ak47, giricek, and harpring also took turns guarding tmac. (dfish and ak47 were the primary guys, although every time giricek was in the game, he guarded him). tracy had problems with all those guys b/c that's 4 guys going at you in the game. but no excuses, that was one of tracy's worst playoff series i've ever seen him play (though tracy wasn't a ghost like joe johnson was v. delonte west-the cavs didn't rotate a bunch of players at joe too). tracy still had a great impact in that series. tracy v. the jazz that year - 40 mins, 25.3 pts, 5.3 rebs, 7.3 ast, on 39.4% shooting, with a PER of 21.2. (this was his worst playoff performance EASILY) joe johnson playoffs this year - 39 mins, 16.4 pts, 4.5 rebs, 3.5 ast, 41.7% shooting, with a whopping PER of 12.5 (i didn't know you can go that low PER-wise--esp. for a guy who has the ball as much as joe). to be specific, joe v. the cavs: 15 pts, 4.25 rebs, 4.5 ast, 41.9% fg i'd take tracy's worst playoff series in his career x100 over joe's playoffs series.
I addressed the whole semantics issue in previous posts. And I'll give you credit for trying and most of this is better than I expected from you, but you are still way off on just about every point that you made. Especially on your understanding of the Hawks offense and how it works. For starters, their lack of a second playmaker is the least of their problems. Bibby may be a lot of things but a poor playmaker and decision maker he is definitely NOT. In terms of running/initiating the offense the Hawks have a nice balance of Bibby running more standard half-court plays with JJ doing mostly PnR work and being better at pushing the ball. The offensive balance that you speak of is non-existent. From top-to-bottom, sure, the Hawks have a ton of talent. They play with a ton of energy and can overwhelm you with their athleticism. The main problem is their lack of a consistent post presence (which would be the #1 option to JJ as the #2 option in a perfect world). Josh Smith will put up points but he's always played more like a three than he has a steady pivot -- even after Hakeem worked with him to improve his footwork. Horford? Horford is a solid player that can hit the 15-footer but has no go-to move and looks like a robot in the post whenever he tries to create his own offense. Your lack of understanding of how the Hawks' offense works is really quite evident with you suggesting that as a 'real superstar' JJ should have stepped up his game and done more -- by "doing more" I think it's pretty obvious that you mean scoring more. After all, that seems to be your M.O. -- highlight scoring averages, disregard intangibles or strategy. Who cares if it disrupts the offensive flow or acts in contrast to how a team is coached. It's all about scoring. That's how superstars "get theirs", right? Look, this is getting rather tedious. Debating semantics, debating games and teams that some of us know little about. Plus, it's pretty obvious that the underlying theme in this thread is this silly "T-Mac vs. JJ" argument that people continue to indulge in -- everything we've discussed about JJ comes back to the standards T-Mac is held to. Why? I don't get it exactly. But unless there's a compelling reason to continue this discussion I have little more to say.
baller4life, i don't know how can i get this point across to you? superstars GET THEIRS in terms of making a damn impact. it's not just the scoring. it's the rebounding, assists, defense, aggressiveness, forcing the issue, controlling the tempo, make the defense adjust to you as opposed to the other team controlling what the star is supposed to do.... and for joe, it was not just his scoring. it was his timidness and playing scared. i rarely see him attack at all in the entire playoffs. are you seriously going to tell me joe johnson had any kind of impact in this past playoff run, outside of game 7 v. the heat? (that was the game where he was on fire jacking up 3 pt shots from way downtown too). if you're still trying, well, i guess you can keep trying. from MY EYES and what i saw, joe johnson was mediocre in this past playoffs. sure it's MY opinion. but a lot of the NBA heads feel the same way, or else joe wouldn't be called out during those damn series. i'm going to stop here b/c it's obviously a difference in opinions. but trust me, if you're going to ask all 31 GMs, you'll be lucky to get ONE to call him a superstar
Good Lord. I spent the first 2-3 posts here explaining to you how you're overlooking JJ's two-way game and how his impact transcends those stat-lines that you love so much then you come back at me with this? You even admitted you saw Game 7 of the Heat series yet that still wasn't good enough. There's obviously no getting through to you so i'm done. And maybe that mysterious 31st NBA GM that you just created can custom design a team to your liking? You know, a team full of SUPERSTARS that don't SUCK that know how to GET THEIRS. I bet they would put up some pretty cool stat-lines to use for argument's sakes! How much fun would that be? Ahhhh, thanks for the conversation. I'll let you have the last word and maybe we'll revisit this topic next summer once he reaches the playoffs again and that young team has another year of experience underneath their belts. Either way I refuse to take your bait and make this all about T-Mac so you might as well focus your efforts elsewhere and just leave it at that.
okay since some of you dont think all star invites mean anything y dontyou compare all nba team awards between each. oh about their recent playoff performances, JJ got shut down in the playoffs would ne understandable if he was mabye hurt. i think he was pretty healthy. T-mac however had his knee acting up on him. It wasnt as bad as last year, but the knee was getting worse the more he played on it. He even took pain killers, and still had better numbers than JJ. I am just saying a healthy t-mac(which is a good chance this year) is not gonna get shut down in the playoffs.
Give it a rest. I just realized how many new posters are backing Tracy more than the guys with longer tenures here. Maybe its cause we know how it feels to be spit on and let down. Thanks a lot Tracy, we love you for that.
The info i looked up said he was an allstar 7 times, but if your right, thanks for fixing it. And i am not saying he isnt great, im saying that just because you are an allstar does not make you a superstar. That was my point in bringing up Dikembe(Who i loved as a rocket by the way). And i also dont consider Ray Allen a superstar either. Great player, but not a superstar.
Agreed. Johnson would look so good in a Rockets uniform. I feel him, Yao and Battier could be a very strong core, though if Andersen develops nicely, I'd like the Rockets to atleast pursue other avenues aside from keeping Yao as their foundation.
i would want to see how this board would react if joe johnson became a rocket, and posts a 12.5 PER in he playoffs. i know PER is not a strong stat, but it's a fairly decent indicator of how well you play (michael jordan basically owns most of the top 10). do you know how BAD you have to play to post a 12.5 PER?
The point is mcgrady is the better player when healthy, but with he's injury prone history and JJ's age, it would be a good trade for us. for the record i expect mcgrady to have a better year then JJ though.
