Let's not do this, okay wekko368? I don't mind people calling me names. I don't mind people calling McGrady names either. But what's fair is fair. Even for a worthless hump like McGrady. Nowhere has anybody (especially me) contended that McGrady shouldn't get the lion's share of the blame when the Rockets lose. Even if I were to do that, it wouldn't change the fact that McGrady will draw the wrath of anybody with an axe to grind against him at every opportunity. I've said I was fine with that and that I understand that. Last year, McGrady made a bad decision in not getting his knee fixed. Doctors were telling him that microfracture surgery was always an option, but that they wanted him to try to heal and get better without the procedure. Something about the least invasive option in medical treatment being sought first. The same drivel fed to us about Yao Ming's foot, that had doctors who saw a hairline fracture, but decided a walking boot would patch it up just fine. Only to have Yao gallavanting around and make the break worse, meaning that Yao would have to miss the season to set the thing right in the first place.... Nobody's going to do anything in an athletic competition at this level injured. Not playing with a sprained pinky or with the flu, but with something that keeps you from using your legs. No sense in discussing this. Again, I've said several times that the onus of adjustment must fall to McGrady, if he wants to salvage his career. His physical health is step one. Any adjustment in his play begins with him being healthy enough to play. Malcontent or not, the Rockets were still able to win. McGrady, according to well-regarded sources, was a pain during that win streak....something about not getting enough touches or what-not..... ....like you say...what the heck difference does it make WHAT a guy's personality is like if the team WINS? And besides, the Lakers had veterans who helped keep tensions down (not to mention make a few shots and plays themselves), and a strong-willed coach who steered that ship a lot further than it would have gotten if left to Bryant and O'Neal.... ...and I'm sure you'll love this, wekko368—McGrady said himself more than a few times that he came back less-than-100% and it backfired on him. He thought he was helping when he was hurting. He zigged when he should have zagged. McGrady can be as dense as San Francisco fog sometimes, but he beat you to it with that poke. I've said myself too many times that I don't regard McGrady as high as some other players (LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade), because McGrady doesn't have the resume. He has a long way to go to get that type of compliment from me. The standard has always been high for McGrady. I don't mind it at all when people say he's missed the mark on that. But I don't get off on beating him up. Not when there are more important things to worry about with this team. If giving McGrady whatever sliver of credit he DOES deserve gets me labeled, I'm cool with that.
Absolutely ridiculous. When multiple doctors say you don't need surgery, then you don't need surgery. He wouldn't have been in as much pain if he had rehabbed properly in the first place. Like I say? The examples I cited dealt with championships....not regular season games. I guarantee people would be more flexible with him if he was leading us to championships. You're trying to compare apples and oranges. Why would I love it? Just because he admits what everyone knows doesn't absolve him of his responsibilities. He's like a little mischievous child who keeps making the same mistakes despite getting into trouble over and over. It's like no matter what, he screws up this team. Even if he does come back and plays effectively, whats the end game? We aren't nearly good enough to win a title. So what he's essentially doing is increasing his own value at the expense of the development of our young players as well as a potentially high draft pick.
What's ridiculous is trying to decide how much pain somebody's in. From what I understand, quite a few NBA players have some of the problems with their knees that McGrady had (or had). John Stockton had the same type of wear on his knees. I don't believe he needed the surgery, but he had it anyway, and was back to work in about 4 or 5 months. Of course, McGrady isn't regarded as tough as John Stockton (or even as tough as the Easter Bunny).... ....at any rate, if he wasn't ready to play for whatever reason, he had no business on the court. Just like the staff is doing with him now. Apples and oranges, hm? No problem with that. Winning is winning to me. And I can guarantee you that people (fans, particularly) are as fickle as the athletes they worship. Win, and you get a pass. Lose, and you get a pass out of town. Bryant had won three straight titles for the Lakers not 3 years earlier, and half the state wanted him gone when he started whining and crying about how his teammates sucked. What have you done for me lately? Or ever? Rotten fruit is rotten fruit. Why would you think that we aren't good enough to win a title? I though the town believed the Rockets were closer to winning it all than ever now, what with how the Rockets almost took down those high-and-mighty Lakers in the playoffs? Don't tell me you've changed your own tune about how much better it is to lose in the playoffs than win in the regular season. I thought Rick Adleman's and Daryl Morey's whole idea of keeping McGrady out of the picture was to show everybody that the Rockets don't need him, and they can have him for whatever scraps they can piece together. They sure don't act like they're a lottery team, or that they need a lottery pick to compete with anybody..... Look, wekko368. I know you don't like McGrady. I know why you don't like McGrady. I'm fine with it. I really am. But pay attention to Daryl Morey and Rick Adelman. The Rockets are in good hands. McGrady's "Dennis the Menace" schtick has about run its course. You WON! McGrady's not going to play (at least for a while), and when he does, it certainly won't do anything to hurt the Rockets. You'll see. Everything will work out fine. You wanna talk about Joe Johnson some? This IS supposed to be his thread after all......
I'd rather have Amare Stoudemaire or Chris Bosh than Joe Johnson if opportunities presents themselves.
Are you aware that this all started with minor, routine arthroscopic surgery? It's common sense. If he does the rehab, he won't have pain. Do you find that to be ridiculous logic? That just means you have low standards. What do you expect? Bryant helped turn a championship team into first round fodder in the playoffs. They could've easily been a dynasty. No offense, but if you think we're title contenders with our current roster, you're an idiot. My own tune? Don't put words in my mouth. I've stated in other threads that I'd prefer for the team to develop the young players and tank in the process. I have no idea what you're talking about. Morey's idea of keeping McGrady out of the picture? Have him for scraps? Also, no team is going to act like a lottery team at the beginning of the season. They still need to sell tickets and generate revenue to stay in business. Use some common sense. For a Joe Johnson thread, you sure do make a lot of excuses about McGrady.
He feels mcgrady has stunted yao's growth. he wants mac gone so yao will get more shots. he has a long history of this nonense
Your still trying to push this ridiculous notion? I guess since Yao's fracture got worse while he had it in a boot, he must of just not rehabbed it properly. I mean it is simple logic right?
McGrady's injuries stemmed from minor, routine arthroscopic surgery. Are you really trying to equate that to Yao's injury? Your logic fails.
Long history? Very well...can you find me one post where I say that I want McGrady gone so Yao can get more shots? It should be easy right? After all, I have a long history of that nonsense... If you want, we can even make a tipjar wager. What do you say?
Ah-Ah-Ah, rockets2. Let's keep the name-calling aimed specifically at me, hm? I figure I'm one of the few people around here who could take it.... Anyway, that thinking is sound. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving Yao Ming as many shots as he can get. Yao has the tools. He can score with either hand down low. He plays offense with more finesse than power, but that only means he's got a lot more ways to beat you than with a dunk shot. If anything, McGrady's arrival accelerated Yao Ming's growth. Yao certainly wasn't going to develop with Steve Francis here. And for all the knocks on Jeff Van Gundy, people need to remember that Yao made his greatest strides under his watch. Like I mentioned, rockets2, I get the loathing of McGrady. It's more personal than professional in my opinion, but it's neither here nor there with me.
<img src="http://www.nakedauthors.com/uploaded_images/doctor-739637.jpg"> we have so many doctors on the interwebs! esp on this board!
We've got a bunch of psychiatrists, NBA GMs, NBA head coaches, fortune tellers and comedians here too, the_hustler. God, I love the internet......
haha. yeah.. i can definitely understand the NBA GMS , head coaches etc masks we put on. at least ..that is based on the performance of players on the court (what we see) but the doctors are the ones who get on my nerves
I don't care how routine it is, people heal differently. He came back early and never healed properly. Stop spreading this failed to rehab properly nonsense, it is pure speculation.
So if you believe that some people heal half as quickly as other people, do you also believe that there are people out there who heal twice as quickly? Kind like that movie "Unbreakable"? Are you Mr. Glass?
Quote: Originally Posted by mdrowe00 Last year, McGrady made a bad decision in not getting his knee fixed. Doctors were telling him that microfracture surgery was always an option, but that they wanted him to try to heal and get better without the procedure. Something about the least invasive option in medical treatment being sought first. The same drivel fed to us about Yao Ming's foot, that had doctors who saw a hairline fracture, but decided a walking boot would patch it up just fine. Only to have Yao gallavanting around and make the break worse, meaning that Yao would have to miss the season to set the thing right in the first place.... Nobody's going to do anything in an athletic competition at this level injured. Not playing with a sprained pinky or with the flu, but with something that keeps you from using your legs. No sense in discussing this. Absolutely ridiculous. When multiple doctors say you don't need surgery, then you don't need surgery. He wouldn't have been in as much pain if he had rehabbed properly in the first place. I have had this procedure twice and you don't know what you are talking about. Because the surgery's success rate is so difficult to guarantee doctors prefer the least invasive process at the outset, rehab. Error on the side of caution. Medicine is not an exact science and my doctor, when considering the procedure for me, took the route described by the poster that you disagreed with. Only after I continued to struggle with running, jumping and straightening my leg did he move to the medical procedure. This is why I will always defend T-Mac regarding this injury. I know what it is like to have that type of injury, if you haven't please be quiet or rethink your uninformed criticism. If not mistaken, T-mac had a lesion, which is a hole in the cartilage of the knee. Having a lesion in the knee is one of the most painful sports injuries when you are trying to perform basketball moves at any level (i.e., jumping, running, cutting and such). If you have a lesion, the only thing rehab does is strengthen the parts of the leg around it to reduce the stress on that area but rehab can't repair the lesion itself. Please understand that. So do and say what you like, but know that from someone who has dealt and deals with microfracture surgeries that you don't know what you are talking about. And actually, I second guessed my doctor in the beginning too because I didn't think rehab was working but he wanted to make absolutely sure before he did it and he also got a second opinion. So a doctor(s) can be wrong or extremely cautious and they always refer to the pain tolerance of the person who is dealing with the injury. This is why when they initially diagnose you they want to know what level of pain you are experiencing (on a scale of 0-10), what makes it worse or better, and when does the pain occur. Anyone who understands the risks of the surgery, respects the injury that T-Mac had as a result of him having the surgery. Yes, they may have thought otherwise before he really had the procedure but not afterward because it can be a career killer and what it takes to try to come back from it. Like the previous poster said, T-Mac is going to catch it for any and everything people think he should do or has done. But this area of your argument is uninformed. NO one in their right mind would subject themselves to that type of surgery if the signs for performing it weren't real. I for one hope he is able to come back play at a respectable level or better as a Rocket this year.
So why did he come into the season totally out of shape? Its fine if the doctors wanted to err on the side of caution and prescribe rehab. But based on the way McGrady looked at the beginning of the season, I don't believe he did it.
Rehab strengthens the area around the knee. Cardio gives endurance (and lack of would get you out of shape) , but if you're experiencing pain, it'd be hard to do much cardio. Either way, if you remember, McG had a very good start to the season.
The movie unbreakable wasn't talking about healing ability, it was talking about invulnerability versus being extemely fragile. Recovery from injuries is not a part of the film at all, as the main character didn't get injured the entire film. I think the bolded part should be obvious. People do recover at different rates, that's why whenever you have surgery the doctors give you a timetable of recovery instead of saying exactly when you would be healed. T-mac's problem last season really stemmed from his low pain tolerance. It was obvious he was still feeling pain from the surgery, and rather than gut it out he stopped doing cardio altogether and became chunky and out of shape. This of course caused him to perform poorly when he tried to play. Tmac should not excused from his performance last season, but he also shouldn't be blamed like some kind cancer. He can't help having low pain tolerance, just as Yao Ming can't help being injury prone. Due to plain stupidity and ignorance most fans are so quick to judge, but then again these are the same people who will be riding Tmac's jock if he becomes a superstar once again.
