i think it makes sense on paper. digging a little deeper there are some questions i think. - what will other teams offer for miller, who may need him more than we do? from what i have read memphis is getting a lot of offers for him. more competition = higher price. - what is the long term impact on the cap? with the exception of mike james those are all very cap friendly contracts the rox are trading, and not so friendly contracts coming back. will les want to pay lux tax if it is necessary? - will morey want to introduce new players when the team is finally coming together chemistry-wise? - will mike miller want to come off the bench? how do the rockets utilize miller/tracy/shane/bonzi without someone getting upset? none of them can play the 1 or the 4 really, so thats 4 players that need minutes for 2 spots. - you are trading away your best defensive big, and the only person on the team that can guard boozer/amare/duncan effectively. are the rockets ok with that? dont forget that chuck is also a mentor for landry/scola. - IIRC JCN is either expiring this year or next, and is not a lock to even stay in the NBA now that he cannot play with Gasol. is that a risk we want to take after all the crap that happened with billy? - finally, and most importantly, this does not help memphis in the way they really want - draft picks. that may be the undoing of the whole idea.
I got a better version We trade: Head Hayes Synder Francis Battier next years first rounder We get: Artest KT Udrith Ming/Mutombo Scola/Landry Artest/Novak TMAC/Wells Alston/Udrith Miller Hayes/SAR Battier/ Martin/Salmons Bibby/Head
I think it would take a 1st rounder, if not 2, for Memphis to do that deal. JCN and Miller are really good players - you don't give them away for scrubs. And Swapping James for Cardinal does shed a year from them, but I would think they'd want more immediate cap relief - a la what Kwame is to them after the season. I don't really see us having the pieces to land anyone significant without giving up Scola/Landry/Brooks/Battier - None of which I'd truly want to part with.
its not better. artest can walk after this season. so if you dont give him an extension or whatever he wants, then basically you traded battier and all your trade assets for a bad contract and yet another backup pg.
Can't see a trade involving Shane for Artest. Shane is signed to a reasonable contract, you know what you are going to get with him. I wouldn't mind adding Artest, but not at the expense of losing Shane.
Why would artest walk? A lineup of Ming/Mutombo Scola/Landry Artest/Novak TMAC/Wells Alston/Udrith would make us finals worthy.. frankly right now we are just not there... and udrith is a 40% three point shooter of the bench with wells and landry! We would have three legit scorers and a chance at a championship. I mean what is the worth of shane if we never get to a championship...Thats the goal right?
youd have to pay him. which means that if he goes nuts again, you're stuck with his attitude and contract. besides that, the team's biggest need isn't another wing defender, we already have one. you cant think about it just in terms of upgrading the talent, because even though artest is very talented, he'd basically give you what shane already gives you plus a little more offense, at a much less reasonable price. on a team with two max+ players, i'd rather have shane at mle money than artest at $10M+ to be our elite wing defender. the miller/jcn trade is more appealing to me because it provides a skillset we don't really have on the current roster, plus the upgrade at PG is more substantial, plus there is not as much risk, plus it makes the team more versatile. all imho of course. i would much rather bring on miller/jcn for the package discussed earlier than artest/udrih/kt at the price of battier/expirings.
These are great points, and you're right...losing Hayes might hurt us defensively when we go up against Duncan, Boozer, et al. But, don't forget...Yao traditionally defends Boozer when we play Utah with our PF checking Okur, so not having Chuck against them won't hurt us too much. As far as Phoenix is concerned, the Shaq trade allows us to play Deke against them and remember Yao can guard Amare when necessary. I know Amare hates going up against bigger players. I think NO will actually be a tougher matchup for us if we lose Chuck. I don't think the minutes situation with Battier, T-Mac, Bonzi, and Miller is going to be that difficult. Haven't they been going with a 4th quarter lineup with Rafer, T-Mac, Battier, Bonzi as the PF, and Yao lately? Depending on the matchups, I could see the Rockets going with a small-ball lineup of Rafer, T-Mac, Miller/Battier, Bonzi, and Scola/Landry at the 5. Heck, Miller or T-Mac can handle the ball, so, for some stretches, you don't need a traditional point out there. But, I really see the only obstacle being the Rockets' willingness to take on Cardinal's contract. I really believe Memphis will do ANYTHING to get rid of Cardinal. One less year is HUGE for them. If Morey can convince Les that Miller can put us over the top not only in the short term, but long-term (Miller is young and would fit Adelman's system to a T), then it should be a done deal. Both players add dimensions to our team that we don't have right now, and we'll have a greater chance of making the playoffs and actually doing something.
Getting JCN would necessitate a wink-wink acknowledgment from Navarro that he's not going to bail for Europe after this year. JCN's skillset fits Adelman's system extremely well (he can pass, shoot, and penetrate). I like Brooks as much as the next guy, but if you can get Miller and JCN, you have to give him up.
The things is we wouldn't get miller and JCN for that sorry package on the other hand we could get artest and udrith... I just believe that my trade is more realistic... not that miller wouldn't help us because i do believe we need three point shooting (see udrith) but artest is and all around talent who can also knock down the three and play D on any position 1-4...
JCN can shoot and do little else. He is physically weak and will get abused on the defensive end. Miller would be a good get but JCN isn't even worth discussion.
JCN's worth on this team is dependent on whether the Rockets believe Brooks can handle backup duties in the playoffs and that he's an upgrade over Mike James, the presumed backup PG if Adelman and the Rockets don't think Brooks can handle it. I think you're underrating JCN's value strictly as a backup PG on a playoff team. He's got experience on the big stage with his years leading a very good Spain team, something that Brooks lacks on the NBA level. He's a better shooter and ball handler than James, and, I believe, a higher BB IQ. Whatever deficiencies he has defensively, both Brooks and James have the same ones.
I believe you and jopatmc are dead-right on this one. Artest is a great player, but he's kinda crazy. In the Kings game against the Warriors, Artest was pounding his chest like Tarzan and got a senseless technical foul in a close game. You don't get that unpredictability from Battier. Offensively, he isn't as good a shooter/ versatile scorer as Miller is. Watching the Kings play the Warriors the other day, Artest can really score in one of two ways. He can post up and power his way to the goal, or he gets isolated on the wing to either drive or shoot. Miller can score in multiple ways. He moves without the basketball, so he can come off screens to shoot or drive. He can do iso's AND he can spot-up shoot. Defensively, Artest is stronger and longer than Battier, but is he that much better a defender than Battier? Not really.
