Trade CP3 and rebuild or embrace the "win now" strategy?

Probably not anything great.

To me the question is, what GM would want him? Maybe Magic if LeBron pushes for it? Maybe NOP because Demps is dumb and desperate to show AD they're trying to win?

It's hard to think of who would want CP3 and that contract. He's getting paid so damned much that it's hard to even find somewhat similar salaries.

My suggestions for the Rockets are extreme:

Essentially shut down CP3, play young guys, keep picks, maybe trade Ego for youth/pick, then try to run it back next year with Harden, CP3, Clint, drafted, and the role players who have hopefully improved.

Or

Dump CP3, play young guys, trade EGo for youth/pick, try to sign FAs to give us a deeper team to run it back next year with youth.

What I don't want is to just keep doing what we're doing and hope that either we suddenly get better or we give up assets to acquire a role player that won't come close to putting us into the top 3-4 teams.

 

I think the roots of evil go deeper.

I think we should uproot our 'system' that is not a system.

Play more like other successful teams. Of course find a way to play better Defense.

Find a way to really get 3 pt specialists who average 38-40% from 3 pt range rather than bogus guys who attempt solely 2-3 shots.

Find a way to get a normal sized PF that can shoot the occasional 3.......dayum see Markkanen!!!!!!

We are beyond bad that we can actually sign back DMo or are the bridges burned?

We should find a better way to incorporate Euro players, rarely did they work out. We have one of the best FOs and we dun have good Euro players.

Learn from the Mavs, Spurs and Memphis in terms of signing international players. Hate to break it that way.

Dun stash them, play them, use them!

 

I think CP3 has more value than we seem to give him credit for. He could be playing like **** on purpose-we dont know the behind doors thing. Secondly, he's a recruiter. So someone could take a flier on that fact. Also, PG is a position I think that can age ok if the rest of the team is ballin' out. IF CP3 has NO burden to score a single point, he could get 12 assists a night easily with the right roster.

 

What about the Lakers? Players or picks or both. They're better than some expected, CP3 would be huge for them. And they have the $$ for a max player. I don't know squat about salary, so spare me if this is stupid.

 

The thing is, most of the time, the fanbases are right. This isn't because fanbases are amazingly prescient. It's because for the most part, there are maybe 3 types or "reasonable" teams to root for. (1) tanking. they're going to lose, but you know it and are ok with it. (2) growth. past tanking, trying to make the playoffs now and get better. (3) legit contenders, or you thought they were.

The only one where it's truly "hard" to judge is (2). Because you aren't always sure which players might make sense on a truly championship level team for the long haul. With tanking teams, it's kind of like, that guy sucks... let's play him!!!

With legit contenders, the reality is, there aren't really that many legit contenders. Or even if their are, all of them still lose except one. And in the NBA, that one is really one of maybe 3 teams MAX that will dominant the decade.

So, quite literally, EVERY fanbase of EVERY eastern conference team over the last 8 years that didn't have Lebron James on it could have been, "our superstar sucks and will never get us to the promised land. we should trade him before we lose value!!!" And they'd generally be right. And ultimately, trades did happen eventually at least (Pacers moved on from PG even though that was as much PGs decision. Raptors moved on from DeRozan. Wizards SHOULD HAVE moved on from Wall. Hawks moved on from their run. Celtics have flipped the roster more than once. Bulls moved on from Butler. Etc.).

more... random ramblings, lol...

Spoiler

I'm not advocating "PANIC". There's also examples of wait it out that work. Most famously to Rockets fans, their 6th seeded team (lowest in modern era) that made roster move, and gelled at the right time. But slow start Cavs more recently. Or more specific to a career arch of a superstar, you have Dirk, and even Hakeem.

But I am advocating that I think teams, and the NBA in general, would be better with EVEN MORE player movement. There's only so many years one can beat on the drum of the same top guy and have it not work. The rules of the NBA salary cap, combined with the talent in the game, changing philosophies, superteams, etc, etc, etc, make it pretty difficult for even VERY VERY VERY CAPABLE GMs - cough, cough - Daryl Morey to accomplish the one main and principal goal of his.

For all the "it's on DM" type posts here - which are absolutely correct - it's nonetheless not easy stuff. We can in retrospect say why didn't he resign Ariza? But imo, I have no clue if that would have worked either... Ariza isn't what he was himself. Plus, Ariza walked for $15 MILLION, an obvious an huge overpay. And while it would have been nice for CP3 to take a discount, was DM really supposed to play hardball with him?? When I'm sure CP3 was promised what he got before he even forced his way to the Rockets in the first place, and when if the Rockets didn't resign CP3, Daryl would have also been shred to pieces. As it was, they had a long protracted negotiation with Clint Capela. We can definitely look to the margins - MCW?? Really?? Melo?? Really?? Ennis?? Really?? But it's a hard task. And I think if it wasn't such a no-no of a thing to do just in general NBA culture, being able to experiment more by trading "superstars" of value at any time just "because"... it's not currently working... it would be to the benefit of GMs like Morey, who is good, and could mix and match more freely with better assets.

I think the DeRozan trade is GREAT. I love what Usiri did. He took a player, in his prime, a consistent all star and all nba talent, and said, why can't I trade this guy, even if my fanbase hates it, my other all-star level player hates it, and there is risk it won't work out for the long term? We haven't accomplished are goal and in fact fail somewhat embarrassingly on that journey every year. DeMar was 2nd all-nba last year, with 3 years left on his deal , a deal which, at $27 million a year is NOT an overpay in today's NBA, and traded him for a guy that hadn't played in 12 months, was having culture issues with the freaking Spurs of all teams, and is on an expiring contract with previously publicly reported desires to end up in Los Angeles. But it was absolutely the RIGHT move.

just some ramblings[/spolier]

 

Exactly why Morey's best move to this very day is and will be the Harden trade.

Young guy who has massive potential but hasn't untapped it all, goes to a new place blossoming into a superstar.

He needed at least another younger star to pair him up wtih instead of going for the way older dudes straight up.

Bank on another young guy that has massive potential but has already been producing in the league.

Even if that guy is an older Euro/South American veteran like Scola.

 

i think he should continue with going for the older dudes

 

You forgot to quote my comment which talked about teams in category 2 - and that being the hardest. Because while it might have been easier for the Sixers to think "move Noel, MCW and Okafor, keep Embiid and Simmons" or the Warriors to think "keep Dray and Klay, move on from Barnes" figuring out which talent to keep on growth teams can be tricky indeed.

 

i pretty much kinda agree with you and i deleted the part of your comment that was in spoilers cause i havent read it, yet, just posted this for a fun fact or an alternative option
edit: yeah i deleted a lot more, nevermind

 

If we trade CP and tank, we are hoping a rookie or two will develop fast enough to become an nba superstar in the next 3 to 4 years. Harden’s prime will still be wasted. Harden needs a veteran leader beside him. Trading CP right now would likely slam the Hardwindow shut as well. We can try rookie after rookie. Reality is we would be looking at least another 7- 10 years of mediocrity.

 

1. CP3 is overpaid.
2. He has regressed.
3. He is still a good player, and should be for at next season as well.
4. There is a market for near elite point guards.
5. If trading CP3 one season later was the idea then he shouldn't have even been traded for in the first place

1.The handshake deal was simple. Chris Paul accepts a trade, and takes a discount in 2017-18 so he can get a 4 year max through the 2018-22 seasons. Otherwise, CP3 signs for the max in 2017-18 and the Rockets are forced to trade multiple players so they can create cap space. You back out on that handshake deal, and the Rockets will lose all credibility with future free agents. And then Chris Paul is on TNT a decade later making fun of our organization. Either the Rockets don't get CP3, they trade for CP3, or they create cap space for CP3.

2. He's 33 in his 14th season. Of course he is going to regress. Look at the list of all 33-34 year olds in their 14th season. A lot of them are shells of their former selves. Wade in the 2nd year of the Heatles regressed, and by the 3rd year LeBron had to play the best he could possibly play for the Heat to be as good as they were. If you're mad now then you're going to be even more mad next season. In fact, you should have been mad the moment the Rockets traded for him. I'll talk about that in #5

3. Despite regressing due to age, what is also causing CP3s regression to stand out is his shooting, healthy issues, effort levels. When he is fresh he typically plays well. He can still average 15 ppg, 8apg, low turnovers, and great defense so long as his minutes and work load are both reduced. AKA it is mainly a roster issue. He will be fine if we get him help. As you should for players as they get older.

4. You have to be kidding me to think that no team would want Chris Paul on their team. That's like saying that no team would trade for a 33 year old Charles Barkley in hopes at making a push for another title. There would at least be one team who thinks that adding a HoF PG could help push them to the top. IMO the Jazz might be better by adding CP3 as Rubio sucks, Exum is trash, and Mitchell isn't a play maker. Denver might need a PG. CP3, Butler, and Embiid might be a better fit than Simmons, Butler, Embiid. Lakers might get desperate if they don't sign a big time player... or they might get AD, and think CP3 would be the perfect 3rd star. Who knows, man. CP3 isn't washed just yet.

5. We all knew these problems would happen before the trade/signing of CP3 in the summer of 2017. Everyone knew of likelihood of CP3 demanding a lot of money and becoming old/injured/worse. Instead, people focused on if he would work with Harden. Hindsight in this situation right here is not 20/20. The current problem that CP3 brings should have been very public back in 2017. Look, I understand that feelings and thinking change over time. We're human, You can be all for trading CP3 now, and also could have been very happy when the Rockets traded for (and 'resigned) CP3. But at the same time it just feels wrong to pretend like it was a stupid trade (re-signing) to make all of a sudden, yet never voicing that opinion before. [and don't "well, not all men" me if you were always against it.] We all knew CP3 was going to become old and overpaid VERY quickly. It shouldn't be a surprise that he's old and overpaid now on December 10th, 2018. You couldn't have been happy that CP3 re-signed and said run it back, and now that the Rockets suck all of a sudden it's "we need to trade him!!" That's like me being surprised that a cop arrests me for me spitting on his face, and calling his mother a w****. It should have been expected that he was going to regress and thus become overpaid. The Rockets are all-in for the duration of Chris Paul's contract.

 

Why all this talk about credibility, DM kicking player like cans. There is no credibility , every player knows that for sure.

 

If CP3 and Knight are not traded and miss the playoffs this year, and If this year is not a playoffs then next 3 years would be the same thing.

Tilman could sell the team next summer at 1.7 billion.

it is scary to see him lose $500 million dollars in such a short period.

 

Right? No, alot of these dudes on here arent right, they are knee jerk,dumb and impulsive. I get what you mean, but I take exception to that, especially on this board.

As for the rest, I really do agree with you. A GM is a difficult job to ask with very complicated situations so its really easy for us as fans to say " Get it done Morey" and sit back and watch.

Okay, so about the whole Lebron and the East teams thinking they should trade their superstar, I disagree and honeslty, the only reason Lebron made that many finals in his career was caused he stacked the deck and played in the way wayyyyyy weaker conference. Wizards,Pacers(kinda)Bulls,Hornet..being examples have bad management and failed to get a good amount of talent on their roster to surround their stars(Honestly though Wizards underperformed alot of the time). Teams like the Sixers, Celtics,Raptors (actually maybe them butI will get to them in a sec) and Bucks had no reason to believe trading their Superstar was a good idea. Bucks should have traded Giannis?? No way, Celtics should trade and Brown and Taum(no way not unless its for a Superstar but they do have alot of turnover you're right), Sixers, Embid and Simmons...big no. As for the Raptors, yea that Derozen trade was good, but being real they chocked last year and easily should have disposed of Cleveland. But you're right if they had Kawhi last year there is no way Cleveland wins that, they would be cooked. But again they got a good return on their deal, they never would have gotten anything close to that trading for Demar. Some of those teams just couldnt compete tbh and werent anywhere close cause alot of them had one superstar plyer(or two borderline all stars on their team).

 

I'd love to dump him and his contract. However I feel we'd be dumping the contract on a bad team by paying them draft picks.

It would also pi$$ Paul off which might damage the Rockets reputation depending on how you think Paul is viewed around the league.

 

Knee jerk gonna Knee jerk

Trade CP3, get Ariza back, Harden sucks, blah blah blah

All heard before, never really fixed anything. Yes, the Rockets suck right now. Yes, CP3 could have taken less money. Unfortunately, this is the wave we have to ride out right now, but I believe it will get better.

Just have some faith.

 

If I were Tilman, I'd set the goal for Morey and MDA.

I am okay with top 4 highest payroll in the nba, but you've got to be at the 8th seed or 9th seed.

You are not doing a good job if you sit at 14th seed so long.

 

This is hillarious

 

This team is not even remotely close to wining it all as currently constructed with a terrible mix of players who don’t fit and cap hell.even if we wanted to stay in a win now window we can’t with the cap and unattractive trade assets.You can trade CP and rebuild or trade him for ready made assets to stay in the window.

Right now he has declined so badly his trade value will decrease with each passing week. In short Rockets are stuck with this deal and our only realistic bet his to support him and hope he can at least step up to 70% of what he used to be