Ugh, he said "IF". He wasn't comparing anyone to anybody else. And, he is right. Everyone has already annointed Young as the greatest QB to ever play.
wow. again. new information. things changed. i've said this 55 times already...i'll say it once more. see if you can pay attention. i don't think david carr is a bad QB...i think he's a good QB. i think VY, however, is special. and i don't think you let david carr stand in the way of drafting a guy like VY for both on the field and off the field reasons. did you understand?? i did not think/know VY would come out back in mid-November. after the Rose Bowl, it was clear he probably would. there's the change. you weren't just wrong on the game..you told us how overrated VY was as a college QB. you were wrong.
Um, overstate much? And if you think that's what happening with Vince on this board (wow, a Houstonian being jocked...surprise! ), then what in the world do you call the Bush comparisons to Gayle Sayers and Walter Payton and Barry Sanders and so on?
wow...EVERYONE is saying that??? earlier in one of the 2433 threads about young i said that neither bush nor young was a sure thing. but that young is who i would take for various reasons. DaDa is making absolute statements about VY being a certain HOFer. on the other hand, how many, "he'll definitely make david carr better".."he'll definitely be a game-breaker" posts have been made about mr. bush?
Dude, you disagree with them, so you're obviously biased. See why I'm dreading the next three months? I'm leaning towards VY now thanks to the Bush supporters with a complete lack of reading comprehension, though.
I was wrong about 1 game. I was wrong about USC's defense, I never said VY was overrated. I predicted that USC would have a gameplan committed to stopping him and that he would have some costly fumbles and picks, and I was dead wrong about that. Let these two teams play again and i'll pick USC again. I didn't expect the mistakes and bad calls by Pete Carrol. They had a 12 point lead and melted down. Don't act like I made a stupid decision to pick USC to win that game as if Texas blew them out of the building.
Also. Before the USC game the consensus here was that USC's defense was horrible. Everyone made that point, I argued it and I was wrong, they did look bad. So if USCs defense really was as bad as you guys said it was, then what VY did in the Rose bowl isn't as impressive as what he did to win that game at Ohio State, correct? Is the Rose Bowl performance getting blown out of proportion? Or is USCs defense really not that bad?
Rushing for 200 yards and passing for 267 against the #1 team in the nation (despite a mediocre defense) in the biggest game of the year is impressive no matter who you are. It astounds me that people are trying to discount that performance.
This debate is getting sad... If you watched Vince Young play football you know how good he is. If you watched Bush play you know he is good. The issues are who will be better in the NFL and better for the Texans. For the purpose of this argument let's say the best is right for both players. Vincent Young does in the NFL what he did in college and Reggie Bush does what he did in college. That is a reasonable assumption if they both pan out in the NFL ... and based upon that assumption who should the Texans draft? That frames it better since we are all arguing about potential with respect to Young, Bush and Carr. Think about it.
I would like to add that I think VY is a badass QB and am not trying to discount anything he has done or will do in the NFL. I think he will be a good NFL quarterback, hes a born leader. Taking nothing away from him, at all. I still don't think he is the right pick for the Houston Texans. That is my stance. I am not IC2000, I am not a VY hater. and i'm out. These threads are getting to me. My stress levels are up. I'm headed to the deer lease, i'll be back next week!
Let's get one thing straight. I'm not on either side of this petty argument. I only care that my favorite and hometown NFL team will get a great player no matter who they pick. And, excuse me for exaturating but you have to admit the hype for Young is pretty overwhelming and is borderline obnoxious. DaDa is not the only one throwing around wild claims about him either. I've felt the same way about Bush's comparisons to some of the NFL's greats. Besides, I've hardly seen that about Bush around here anyway. The only argument I've seen for Bush on these boards have been that he is the safe pick and we already have a good QB. Neither are certain hall-of-famers. Neither are assured to bring a Super Bowl to Houston. Both have considerable question marks about their game. The ONLY thing that can be said about them is that they are both great, GREAT college players who are two of the best prospects to ever come into the league. I love coming here to talk football with other passionate sports fans, but this argument is seriously ruining the excitement I have for this pick.
Yeah, me too, on the taking my mind off the Rockets thing. I will say this. I have never bought into the argument that Carr is a piece of garbage. By the same token, I didn't buy in to the allegedness "greatness, can't miss" buzz that surrounded Reggie Bush. I was originally an advocate of trading the pick down and picking up Brick or some other top notch left tackle amongst other offensive line picks in later rounds to give us a line that would allow David the time to drop back and pass without getting blind sided as well as run block. When I studied Bush and watched film of him and game action of him, I saw too many outstanding game breaking plays that I changed my mind. Yeah, men have the right to change their mind, not just women. At the time that I changed my stance on Bush, it wasn't because of all the buzz, it was because I observed myself and saw the great plays he was making and what he was capable of doing to a defense. Even though I still believe that the key to a successful Super Bowl winning team is having an offensive line that the QB can trusts and depend on when he needs an extra second in the pocket for a play to develop to hit that key 3rd and long pass for the 1st down. I still believe that no matter if we had Elway, Unitas, or Montana at QB and Jim Brown or Walter Payton at running back that we will not win the Super Bowl if the QB's blind side isn't protected. We've still got to get that kind of offensive line. But Bush is too good to pass up in favor of a left tackle unless that tackle is definitely Anthony Munoz and how can we tell? We'd have to take our chances with Bush. He's a game breaker. At that time, I had no idea Vince Young would come out and I hadn't even considered him in the draft. Now, we are staring a draft in the face with 2 game breaking, game changing players in it. One will handle the ball approximately 30 times a game; 20 rushes, 5-6 pass receptions, and 3 or 4 kick returns. The other will handle the ball every offensive snap of the game. Which makes the most sense?
i keep hearing bush will return kicks/punts... do you seriously think the texans will spend first draft pick money on a guy and then stick him back there on special teams??? i just can't imagine that happening. let's say bush gets the ball 15 times...if he's superman, he'll average about 5 yards per carry?? is that right?? so our running back gets us 75 yards on the ground.
Plus, no way he's returning kickoffs when we have a guy who was just named to the All-Pro team (I believe he's the first Texan ever to get that honor). He could concevibly be our punt returner, but being good in that department relies more on your overall special teams blocking ability, as well as your defense being able to actually get a stop here and there to force a punt.
It actually it isn't that reasonable. When defenses got better and faster (Texas, OU) Bush was less central of a factor. In many of the games over USC's remarkable run you could not tell who their best player was on offense--Leinart, Bush, White or even Jarrett. As far as VY, he was clearly the best player on the field ever game (not just for Texas) since Mack Brown took the reins off. The bigger the game (Mich, Ohio State, OU, and SC) the better he performed. Given VY games is not merely predicated on speed and having open space, it is more likely he can do more of the things he does on the next level than Bush. VY didn't get the attention he deserved all season or he would have won the Heisman. If anyone has seen a better college player or better game he played for a national title I'd love to hear about. Lot of guys who wanted SC to win and have watched the better part of modern college football (Jackson, Fouts, Corso) pretty much admitted they haven't seen a more impressive performance than what VY did or more impressive player than VY. Yes there are questions about whether VY will be a Pro Bowl NFL QB, every prospect has questions until they do it. But based on VY size, athleticsim and leadership, no one can say his ceiling has a limit as a football player.
i agree entirely....this is the summation post on this issue if you're rooting for the Texans to draft VY...but let me add one thing... i wouldn't bet against Vince Young.
Yeah I agree completely with this. Against OU Bush had 6 carries for 75 yds (12.5/carry) and caught 2 passes for 31 yds (15.5/catch). He didn't do anything but gain 12.5 yds a carry.
