VY is already a better passer than Vick. Vick was never as good as VY at passing in the college game. Vick hasn't improved in his career as much as VY improved just this past season, alone. VY's 2005 season dwarfs anything Vick did at VA Tech.
I did not say Vick was a better passer than VY, I just said a better athlete. There is a difference. I agree that VY is a better QB prospect than Vick. I just think Vick is a freak athletically, probably one of the best pure athletes in any sport. I don't think he is a great QB though.
I think he can. He has probably the strongest arm in the NFL and he throws on of the prettiest balls i've seen. Is accuracy is off and he usually throws it too hard, but other than Crumpler (TE), what receivers has he ever had to go out and make plays for him? With a good set of Receivers I think Vick be the man. And another thing. This year, he didn't run that much at all. He stayed in the pocket and this hurt him, he had nobody to throw to and his team was average, missed the playoffs. I had him on my fantasy team, I was wishing he would run more like he did in his first few years. I guess they were afraid of injury.
Point taken on Vince's arm extension. All that means is he can put more zip on the ball than he is currently doing. That's exciting. Bush running a faster forty than Vince is not that big a deal to me. I just want to see how good Vince's numbers are, how close to Bush or other running backs he comes. I would think he'd do better than a lot of running backs in the draft at the combine.
I actually agree with you about something. Elway's teams had a much worse record and worse terrible passing rating his first 4-5 years. Criticisms were that Elway had no touch, couldn't read defenses and wasn't a leader. It is way too soon to write off Vick and he still would be on the short list of players to build your team around. Reggie Bush can't really impress me that much more with individual workouts, outside of running a Deion like 40 yard dash or showing phenom lower body strength. The questions about Bush are not about his phenom athleticism but about his durability and whether he will be a workhorse, every down, back. This can't be addressed in any workouts and he didn't really give us signs of it in college either.
Arm length - absolutely that is why there are so many tall pitchers in basbell. When you watch VY throw he keeps his arm in so close to his body. This is why in most of my recent posts I have said he is an intriguing prospect. He does have a tremendous upside, BUT I think it may take him a couple of years. Strength - no Power - yes, this is more important than strength.
I think Reggie will run a Deion like 40, and watch for his VJ numbers as this will tell you about his lower body power. McClain reported that he can bench 400lbs which will give you some insight to his strength levels. As for his durability, he is only 21, he can and probably will add 10-15lbs of muscle through general workouts and the basic physical maturation process. He is 207 now, and 10-12 lbs puts him right up with Emmit, Barber, Martin etc.. He is already bigger and stronger than Dunn, who has run the ball VERY well in the past 2 seasons.
I'm not ready to just run Carr out of town and yes I did say and I do believe for Carr to be significantly better that he needs an offensive line that can pass protect for longer than 3/4 of a second. So, I'm not down on Carr. I have a high degree of respect for him. But I had a lot of respect for Dan Fouts, and Kenny Anderson, and Boomer Esiason, and Bernie Kosar, our own Dan Pastorini, Craig Morton and a whole host of others. Every QB I just listed was an excellent QB, all worthy of much respect. It's just difficult not to be floored by Young. He is indeed impressive. The worst part of it is, he's from Houston. If.....if......if he goes somewhere else and turns into the next John Elway (because he has Elwayesque leadership ability and Elwayesque scrambling ability to turn a busted play into a touchdown) then our franchise and it's fans will be collectively kicking themselves in the behind for a couple decades. Let me say once again. I don't think Carr is a bad QB, nor have I ever felt that way. I think Carr is a SOLID leader, a TOUGH player who can/will/does take a hit, with a cannon for an arm, and a good mind for making GOOD decisions, and a GOOD athlete who can run a LITTLE bit and avoid SOME tackles. I think Vince is a SUPERIOR leader, with a very underrated arm who has shown his TOUGHNESS and will cause defenders to MISS tackles, with a great mind for making GREAT decisions, and a SUPERIOR athlete, who can run a LOT and avoid a LOT of tackles. He's got more potential for greatness than David does, that's all there is to it. The question is will we win more Super Bowls with Carr and Bush or will we win more Super Bowls with Vince and whomever because after all, the ultimate measure of success is winning the Big One. If we go to the playoffs for the next 10 years with Carr and Bush and don't win a Super Bowl or let's say we win one Super Bowl, and Vince Young wins multiple Super Bowls, then we are the losers and we won't be happy. How many playoff games did we watch the Oiler lose and what are our memories of them? They are of all the collapses we had in the playoffs, not of all Earl's monster games. We did not win a Super Bowl. Vince has that unique ability, to lead to a higher level, circa Rose Bowl. He got the job done and the team knew they were going to win when they got the ball back with 2 minutes left. That's the feeling that great players give you. You KNOW you are gonna get it done. And that is what I do not see in David Carr. Could he? yes. Will he? Maybe. Do we know for sure? No Vince??? Could he? yes. Will he? He already did. Do we know for sure? Yes. The pressure of that national championship game is very comparable to the pressure that QBs are under when they are in the Super Bowl or key playoff games. Vince did not fold. He carried his team. For that, we know how he will respond to those HUGE moments in the future. He will perform. No nervous nellies, no fumblitis, no short arming throws. He will perform in the big moments. Carr??? Who knows? Take Vince off the Longhorns and they are another team. Take Carr off his college team and they are still another team, just like they were when he was there. When you look at both guys collegiate careers, you have to see that Vince elevated his team much higher than Carr elevated his. We need to face facts here. We are still an expansion franchise starting with the #1 pick in the draft all over again. Except this time, we've got at least a couple more solid pieces to start with then when we started with 4 years ago. And we aren't in a position where we have to live through a bad decision (in hindsight) of taking Tony Boselli and Ryan Young in the expansion draft and then not bringing in enough other offensive lineman to put a decent unit together. We've lived through that the last 4 years. Now, we can look forward. We've got some assets including a very good NFL quarterback that we are going to pay a lot of money to. But, is he going to take us to the Super Bowl next year??? Most of us don't even think we can fight for the playoffs next year. I personally think, that with Carr and Bush, we've got the opportunity to win 8 to 9 games next year. But, at best, that's more mediocrity. And Carr is at the stage in his career where he is going to command huge salary. He's an established NFL starting QB. Why would we not entertain the idea of trading Carr to a team more suited to make a jump in the playoffs, to a team more established and ready to at least compete for a title in exchange for players, picks, etc. that would help us build towards our goal and provide us with salary latitude to be more of a player in the free agent market in a year or two when we are more competitive? There's a superstar in this draft and he's from Houston, Texas, and he's a quarterback........the foundation of the team. Carr deserves his money. He deserves respect.
I have my doubts. If he were that physically impressive every tough spot USC got all year they would have sat LenDale White's ass down and given the ball to Reggie Bush. They would have told LenDale you are great, but you have to play in mop or show your stuff next year because you happen to play behind the most dominant college running back since Bo Jackson. Guess what, this didn't happen because LenDale was the superior between the tackles runner. Had they had a Tony Dorsett, Emmitt Smith, Edge, Thomlinson or Marshall Faulk on 4th and 2 with the season on the line the ball goes to that player, period.
This was posted by MadMax on 11/7/2005: Now MadMax is ready to run Carr out of town. In essence "freaking out". All because his hometown boy has declared for the draft. It has nothing to do with Carr having what it takes or not having what it takes. If our QB was Joe Montana, he'd be run out of town by these rabid VY fans. Sincerely, Sanity
If the Texans pass on Vince Young, it will be like the Rockets passing on Rashard Lewis, big mistake. How much difference would he have made for the Rockets of today, and how many more games would have been won, and how many more seats would have been sold. I told you that the "Spirit of Stupid" resides in the Houston sports community and dumbs down every decision.
i'm flattered you spent the time going back to find one of my posts. yes...i did say that. know why?? because i wasn't all bowled over by reggie bush even then...and i didn't know VY was coming out. now, i'd like to go find the threads where you told us all that VY was overrated...where he'd get creamed by USC...where UT didn't stand a chance in that game. you don't have much credibility on the VY topic. you were wrong on him before....i have no idea why you'd expect me to be persuaded by you on the very same subject all over again.
I was wrong on a prediction of how a game would turn out and how a player would perform in that game. That happens every day, this is why we have sports books and gamblling. People are wrong on their predictions of how games will turn out. I didn't dig up an old "prediction" of yours, I dug up how you completely flip flopped on your judgement of David Carr. Lets compare apples to apples here.
