Trade Carr - Draft Vince Young

You can't go wrong with drafting either Bush or Young, but Vince is a beast. 6'5 with quick feet. I really hope he stays so the decision wont be so hard, but I'm not a big fan of Carr which IMO gives Young the edge over Bush.

 

If Vince leaves, Texas is screwed at QB.

 

Have you no Faith in Colt McCoy or Jevean Snead or Sherrod Harris?

 

I'm still in the Bush camp. Vince is the man, but I'd like to see more of him reading defenses (A&M had him confused), and not putting the ball on the ground. Its real easy for the guy to run that zone-read play out of the shotgun (won't work in the NFL) for about 20 times a game. I just think its crazy that 2 days ago Reggie Bush was the next comming of Jesus, but now people are saying he is over rated. The last I heard was that some scouts given him the best rating EVER, and thier opinion might just hold a little more weight than a bbs poster. Just think of this....if Bush doesn't give up that fumble and he runs for another 50 yards in the game, and they review Vince's knee down play and they have to kick a field goal and USC wins...are we still having this conversation? I know it didn't happen, but it could have.

 

wes --

i hear ya. but i, personally, was asking questions about how many touches bush would ever get in the NFL per game. now i find myself asking that question even more. in the biggest game of the year, bush wasn't called on when the team needed a big play most. not just one play, mind you. even if young doesn't come out this season..i'm very concerned with the texans taking bush. i think the value of the pick in a trade may be worth more than he, alone, can bring you.

 

Most of y'all should be ashamed. One week ago it was all Reggie Bush and now it's all Vince Young. Did y'all take stupid pills or something?

To start off, I really wanted Vince Young. Don't believe me? Search some old threads. I thought "shoot, even if we had a pisspoor O-line, Vince can just scramble all day". But of course Reggie changed my mind with his playmaking abilities AFTER the reception. As I watched the UT games a bit more and dissected the Rose Bowl Game, if it was between Vince or Reggie, I would still take Reggie..and this is coming from a former Longhorn.

1. How many of y'all actually thought about who UT played against? Like that whole USC team as a whole. Everyone lets ESPN/ABC have them believe that UT defeated some kind of juggernaut of a team. So what if they won 34 games straight. I am pretty sure UT could have had a streak like that if they didn't play OU every year and the same argument can be said if USC actually played someone just as good as OU every year (they wouldn't be 34-0 that's for sure). Fact of the matter is, this year's USC team sucks compared to years past. I've only watched a few USC games this year (ND, some of the fresno, and this game) and I have never seen a #1 ranked team with such a pisspoor defense. What was this..the 3rd or 4th time they let an opponent score more than 30? And how many times did UT let that happen? Hell, UT basically anniliated Texas Tech (a ranked team I might add) while USC had trouble with Fresno State. Bottom line: ESPN basically made everyone believe that this USC team was great because of what happened years before and not what happened this year. Hence...

2. What Vince did was amazing. It was one of the greatest (if not THE) performances I've ever seen in sports...any sport. But one thing you have to remember: USC's defense was just as bad as the Houston Texans. UT's O-line was much bigger and stronger than USC's D-line and that basically made pretty nice gaps for Vince, Selvin and Co to run amok. And USC's secondary....they practically made David Thomas look like Dwight Clark out there. Like I said: Young's performance is one of the greats, but look at the defense he did it against...the same defense that gave up one whole touchdown more than UT's defense...and against arguably weaker opponents. Bottom line: Young's athleticism got him going but you cannot deny that USC's ineptitude on defense didn't not help his cause. Which brings up....

3. Reggie Bush. Yes, Lendale White basically stole the show and made himself look like Jerome Bettis' heir but for a guy that got contained (and boy was he ever), Reggie still got 177 total yards and a TD...and that's considered "an off day". Pete Carroll was smart to have White hit up the middle time after time after time, and you could also consider putting Bush on the field as a decoy was a 'smart idea' of his. And you cannot deny that Bush has breakneck speed. "But everyone in the NFL is fast". Please. They may be fast but there have been those rare players (i.e. Barry Sanders) that runs, stops on a dime, cuts a corner, and BOOM. Am I saying that Bush is just as good as Barry? Absolutely not. All I'm saying is that, if there has been a player like that before, there can always be another one coming. Bottom line: in the end, Bush not only made an impact with the ball (the 177 yds and the TD), he also made an impact without the ball by having defenses focusing more on him than on anyone else. Which finally brings me to...

4. The draft. Vince Young has had a great track record at being clutch in big games. That's a no brainer. But how does this Rose bowl win (plus last year's Rose, and the victory against Ohio State) make him a clear cut and (theoretically) a better choice than Reggie? Like a previous poster pointed out, Young works out of a shotgun formation A LOT. You cannot do that in the NFL..especially with the Texans' O-line and better/faster/stronger LBs coming at you with different blitz packages. There were a few times when USC used blitz and almost had Vince. Had it been NFL LBs, Young would have been down for the count. And Vince's mechanics. He's absolutely deadly with those sidearm rifle throws 10 yards out, but his long yard game needs A LOT of work. Those floaters he throws up will only get picked off time and time again. Would I be satisfied with him just sidearming 10 yard passes to Andre? Sure, but there will be moments when the long ball is needed and we all know Ragone ain't your man for that. Bottom line: Vince would be a great player but QB in the NFL? Hmmmm...

5. I can actually stomach Carr for another year if we have an improved O-line with Reggie in the mix. He needs another target besides Andre and the 3 man coverage he commands. Having a QB like Young would be exciting a la Vick but there's a reason why the Falcons haven't gone anywhere significant: when the game is big, you need a QB that can march your team down the field with his arm and not his legs. That's why you have running backs. A QB should be able to get his team into scoring position in the best way possible: with his arm. Elway and Young were very good running QBs but they made the big plays with their arm. McNabb turned into more of a pocket passer last year when the Eagles went to the Super Bowl. The problem with a team built around a QB like Vick (flame away pgabriel) is that defenses know that he basically runs two plays: 1. him running or 2. giving the ball to Dunn or Duckett. There's no consistent passing game over the course of the season for the opponents to have their secondary over prepare. They know that Vick or one of the RBs will run. Only when forced will Vick ever use his average arm. If Vince can replicate his passing abilities in the way of Steve McNair then sign me up..but I doubt Vince will ever be that proficient.

BUSH FOR '06

 

So choosing the #1 pick basically comes down to what a player did in ONE game. Granted, it was the biggest game in their carrers thus far, but still, one game should not be a measuring stick. All year, and the second half of the season especially, I've heard nothing but Reggie Bush. The Texans would be stupid to not draft him. Now the Texans would be stupid to not draft VY? I guess, looking at it objectively, you can't go wrong with either choice. As for me, I'm still sticking with Bush. He may not have had a performance as impressive as Young last night, but remember his performance ALL YEAR forced Texas to concentrate on him, to smother him. Yet he still put up good numbers. And something tells me Young just isn't ready yet for the NFL. Let's see what he can do next season, if he can win himself a Heisman.

 

Wow! Great post, steddinotayto.

Man, this is what I like to see. Well, thought out posts. I may or may not have agreed with your post, but I can respect your opinion because you made a logical case for it.

 

well duh he has to touch the ball the most, he is the qb after all...

 

I remember listening to 610 a few weeks ago and they had someone (guest) they were talking to - for the life of me I can't remember who, I know it was a QB, maybe Ware? - and they got around to talking about Young.

(WHOEVER IT WAS) said that he had studied Vince in HS, and that the kid had an arm like he couldn't believe. He threw a beautiful spiral, and had great control. But GUEST said that when he got to Texas, they coached him to change his throwing style (I don't remember the reason).

The QB even mentioned that he had offered to give Young some tips, if he wanted, to try and correct the mechanics. Said essentially that Young was more than capable of throwing a good ball; there just needed to be some corrections to what he was taught once he got to Texas.

Anyone know if this is true?

And if so, isn't it possible a good NFL coach could change/correct this just the way a college coach could?

The mechanics you can teach, the talent you cannot. I agree with the concerns over his throwing mechanics. But if it is correctable...the talent is hard to ignore.

 

if Super Bowls were won by one player only, then Barry Sanders would have a few in the trophy case right now. You want Vince to touch the ball 70 times...what do you want him to do with it exactly with the O-line that we have right now?

1. Do an Option play? He'll pick up rushing yards like crazy but he basically kills the passing game.

2. Start from a shotgun formation? The opponents' D will sick LBs on him like no other and force him to throw in a pressure situation and I can actually see it getting picked off right now.

This isn't basketball where touches from a superstar player can dictate and, presumably, win a game. Vince needs to not only run (2nd half of the Rose Bowl) but also pass (1st half of the Rose Bowl). That was the amazing thing about that game--he threw the big punches with his arm and finished off USC with his scrambling/running. Can he do that in the NFL with that average arm and a possibly weak O-line protecting him?

Thanks. I don't expect to win over anyone but I just think that we could be better off with Reggie or even getting a package deal from another team (draft rights of Vince to Tennesee for #3 [aka D'Brickshaw], Drew Bennett, 2nd rounder and possibly 3rd rounder?)

 

Of course mechanics can be taught/changed. Carr had to change his mechanics when he got into training camp his first year. It's just that Vince's arm strength and accuracy (on the long ball) and his awesome ability on the run are reasons why they shouldn't (or can't) change his mechanics. If the Texans were to draft Young, I wouldn't be depressed at all. It's just that I hope if they do draft him, they play up to his strengths: the short passing game coupled with running options. It's no different than what the Texans did the first few years...all they did were quick outs and short slants. Vince can handle that. Now those 20+ yd passes.....that's something else.

 

Nobody is saying that Vince only had one good game. We're amazed at the fact that a few days ago almost all of the people on here that are going nuts over Vince were saying almost the exact same things about Reggie. That's fine if you change your opinion, but to make a complete switch like that just a few days later seems silly.

Here is my problem with all of the Vince hype that's occurred in the last 24 hours.

- The Texans are not going to draft him as long as Carr is here, and they're not getting rid of Carr anytime soon. You can wish all you want, but I really don't see it happening. So I'm not looking forward to all the people that are going to be crying and saying the Texans are idiots for not drafting Vince Young. Just a couple days ago the Texans were idiots if they don't draft Bush, but now after one game they're idiots if they don't draft Young. I know Vince is incredible and has loads of potential, but there are just as many questions about him at the next level as there are about Bush.

 

You're right. It was Andre Ware on their weekly show.

He did say his throwing mechanics were a lot better in H.S. and that he offered to work with him. But he also said Vince has been working with Steve McNair.

 

Watching the Rose Bowl yesterday made me consider Vince Young as a Texan for the first time. I was most impressed by the decision-making ability, poise and leadership. If you could swap places with the Saints, or Titans and still be able to pick up Bush, or Young I think you have to consider moving the first pick. I lean to picking up Bush because of all of the investment and cap space put into Carr, but Young really intrigues me.

 

so vince has one good game against a mediocre defense and we should draft him ? When he comes to the pros defenses are going to eat him up. Michael Vick can at least throw and scramble. Vince has suspect throwing capabilities and those 50 yard scrambles he has had all this time at Ut will be far and between in the pros when a defense knows to sit at home.

 

I believe it's already been said...but just in case. Young isn't a mediocre qb who had one great game. He's been impressive all year. But so has Reggie, and up until last night everybody was riding his jock. Now all of a sudden Bush is dust in the wind while Vince can do no wrong. Like I said, they both have their rewards and risks. Both would be great additions. And both have yet to even declare, let alone be inducted into the Hall of Fame. So let's not get ahead of ourselves.

 

Good post Junkyard, this is pretty much how I feel.