I will simply say that the thread of this title is TRADE bonzi, he doesn't fit, when the poster at hand just proposed splitting time between the two. He said NOTHING about snyder being better than bonzi wells which you have repeatedly tried to push over on smarter people. I do agree that there are some situations in which Snyder may be more beneficial to have on the court...at the expense of Bonzi, maybe, maybe not...they are both role players for this team, the difference is bonzi has that ability to be more than "just" a role player, thus is why he is on the court with the 2nd unit primarily. When matchups arise I have no issue with putting Snyder in the game to match up but this should not be a regularity. Because as I said IMO bonzi is a far superior player to Snyder therefore the majority of the minutes should go his way.
I agree with the meat of this post, absolutely. But I would less call it "stubborness", than comfort. I think JVG goes with what is comfortable. He didn't play Bonzi at first because we was out of shape and uncomfortable with him in the flow of the team. Now he has been somewhat more comfortable with Bonzi's role. Unfortunately he is less comfortable with Snyder than he used to be, or at least not comfortable with Bonzi and Snyder both getting minutes. In short I think JVG is a control freak and needs to expand his comfort zone a bit. Once you are in JVG's dog house (or even if he just isn't really comofrtable--perhaps Snyder's case) it is really hard to get out because how can you make him more comfortable if you can't play? I think Phil J and Popovich have dog houses too, but are not as stubburn about being stuck there. Wait a second, I used the stubborn word. Just look Popovich's and Jackson's distribution of minutes, they are not playing role players over 33MPG and they giving some younger or unknown guys more chances to develop roles. In fact Manu, despite having a terrific Roland Ranking (suggest a major drop off when he is out), is only playing 28 minutes so he will be fresh for the playoffs and trying to get other players playing better. As examples for us, Bonzi is playing less minutes than he has in 8 years, Snyder is playing less since midway in his rookie season. Whereas the ancient Deke is playing more than he has in 3 years, and the no spring chickens either Battier and Alston are playing about their highest minutes ever. And again, I want both Bonzi and Snyder to play. Bonzi did nothing most of last season but was a force in the playoffs. That is enough reason to keep him in the fold. But Snyder has also been a legit player in the NBA and done some good things in his PT. If we gave both more minutes we could 1) rest Tmac and Battier more (save plenty of gas for the playoffs as with Manu for the Spurs), and 2) probably get the subs playing better where it punishes us less to take Tmac and Battier out. In short, JVG is doing some great things as a coach, but his rotation is shorter than the most accomplished playoff coaches in the game (includes Riley too--where Wade is the only guy over 33MPG). It is quite reasonable to be concerned about it and point it out. Further, I don't want to hear about the Phx case and their short rotation as a counter, they have not won anything in the playoffs and don't spend a lot of energy on defense--a very different and less exterting style than JVG, Riley, PJ, and Popv.
Bonzi has an Albert Einstein basketball I.Q compared to Snyder's basketball I.Q . In my opinion Bonzi may have one of the highest basketball I.Qs on the team, he's right up there with Battier and T-Mac. I think the rockets are going to need both Bonzi and Snyder to get to the next level and JVG has go to find some way of working Snyder into the lineup. Lets face it, the Sun's and Mavericks are going to play small ball on the rockets at some point during the playoff. And I can almost guarantee anybody that Luther Head will not get the open looks from the 3pt line that he is getting now in the regular season. They need players to put pressure on the defense by attacking the basket and T-Mac, Bonzi and Snyder are the only real slashers on the team.
I agree with this. But the reason why the rotation is shorter than usual is because Yao and T-Mac only played 20 games together. Spurs bench has more proven players than our bench. Brent Barry has been a proven starter in the league, and enables Ginobili to come off the bench. So that's Finley, Horry, Vaughn, and Ginobili getting great minutes off the bench. Then Oberto, who started a good portion this season, comes off the bench. So it's not as if Pop was experimenting players. He's playing players that produce. Guys like Matt Bonner and Beno Udrih only see time in blowouts and to save a regular rotation guy from a stupid foul during the end of quarters/halves. Look at our bench without Yao. It's Head, Bonzi, and Hayes. They have proven to be productive players in the league. Mutombo is playing minutes of a legend because we have no other center. At least until now we got Big Jake and I saw he got some minutes in Orlando so maybe it'll gradually increase. Also, Snyder was getting minutes before he got hurt. JL3 was getting minutes with T-Mac out but proved to be wildly inconsistent. Vspan and Novak also saw sporadic minutes and have given either negative or no production. I'm confident that in time Snyder will work his way back onto the court. I would like him to spot more minutes to T-Mac to keep his body fresh for May and June.
Can I say Snyder screwed himself with that hand injury......i think he will be gone during the offseason. Now back to talk about Bonzi.........look if he doesn't do anything spectacular during the playoffs..........then he will leave by himself. Actually even if he does something during the playoffs he will still leave.
Finley has been aweful. Still playing. Horry's been almost as bad still playing. Vaughn and Udriah, aweful (comparable to JL3 or VSpan), but get some PT. Further I am quite confident none of Oberto, Elson, Udrih, Bonner and Vaughn would smell a JVG rotation. I grant you Barry is a quality (albet 1 dimensional) sub, but he is really more of a starter (#5 on the team in PT) because Finley has been so bad. This Spurs team really isn't getting quality from their bench. They are giving about 5 guys playing worse than Snyder more PT than Snyder. They also have a huge dropoff with Manu or Duncan out, every bit as much as us without Yao and Tmac, but keeping their minutes less than role players for the Rockets (Rafer, Battier). Jackson is doing the same thing too. Getting Farmar, Turiaf and Vujacic way down on the bench some regular PT with only Kobe and Odom (who was out a lot) near their maximum PT. Snyder has been available for 3 weeks, hardly used. I really don't think JVG plans to keep Snyder and Wells both into the rotation, and Snyder is out. Big Jake, not used even though Deke is being overspent. To tell you the truth I much prefer a bench of Howard (or Head depending on who starts when Yao is back), Wells, Deke, Hayes, and Snyder than what the Spurs have. When healthy we have 10 guys who can play. Possibly 11 with Big Jake. Right now we have 9 who can play, possibly 10. But we really are using only 8 and maximing the minutes of 5 of them considering their age (Tmac, Battier, Alston, Howard, Deke). I don't like it with 1/3rd of the regular season left, particularly with come capable guys (Snyder in particular, but somewhat Wells, Hayes, & Head too) who can eat more minutes. JVG had also expressed to the press commits like he only wants 8 guys to play (any more leads to "role confusion"--how Popv and PJ and Riley handle it I don't know), and that it is in effect either Bonzi or Snyder, and that he is not sure what to do with Bonzi and Battier on the same floor. I don't like it both for seeing who you can count on in the playoffs in a pitch and keeping your core players as fresh as possible for the playoffs. A couple extra wins in the win column is not as important for being fresh and preped for the playoffs.
Do smarter people say thread of this title? If you read the whole thread, it is not that Bonzi is a bad player, it is that he is not a good fit for the Rockets, his skillset is redundant. And, Snyder is a good player with size and athleticism that the Rockets desperatly need. I don't have any issue with playing the Bonz when the situations arises, but Snyder should be in the rotation, and since he will be here next year, I would rather be giving him more minutes than Bonzi. DD
DaDa, while I agree that Snyder should be getting minutes and perhaps some minutes over Bonzi under certain circumstances, I don't see how Bonzi's skills are redundant. Like I said before, there is a difference between Bonzi not playing well to his capabilities and him not fitting like you say. If Bonzi was, hitting a higher %, rebounding, playing solid D, I don't see how he wouldn't fit with the team. I think we should be glad that we have 2 very different type of swingmans in Bonzi and Snyder. Unfortunately, JVG will just play one.
Role players are only valuable with stars on the court, Bonzi, however redundant his skills may be according to you, is the next closest thing to a star we have besides T-Mac and Yao. With these two off the court, which is when the majority of Bonzi's minutes take place, we need a "star presence" on the court, somebody to draw the attention of the defense and this is right where Bonzi fits in. I see him fitting very well into what the Rockets need, ecspecially right now, with TMac on the bench we have to have somebody to draw the attention of the defense and for all of Snyders athleticism he's not going to do that. If your argument is that Snyder should be on the court more than Bonzi with 111 then I believe you have more of a case, I personally don't think you're right, but you can definetely make more of an argument for that since Bonzi's offense presence isn't needed with those two on the court. I feel your vastly exaggerating the defense edge that Snyder may have on Bonzi. Remember, an athlete doesn't always translate into a defender, Rafer can run circles around Eric Snow but I'd rather have Snow sticking a PG with the game on the line.
Now we are getting somewhere. My argument is completely that Snyder fits better with this team than Bonzi. And, if Bonzi were a star as you say, then he would indeed fit, but this year's Bonzi does not even draw a double team, which JVG's scheme needs in order to get open looks for the role players. If Bonzi could still draw a double team, my tune would change, but teams have scouted him and simply single cover him and he does not score against that type of coverage enough to warrant a "stars" role on this team. Now if he somehow turns back the clock and loses 20+ pounds and turns into the Bonzi of last years playoffs then woohoo !! I just think that Bonzi is not going to work here on this Rockets team. That Bonzi was playing more in a motion offense...which we do not run here in Houston. Tmeg, you know what? With Tmac out tonight we shall see how well Bonzi plays.....if he plays well and is indeed insurance against Tmac going down, then I will drop this argument. It doesn't matter now anyway, the trading deadline has passed, which was the point of this thread....trade him for a piece that we need more than him...to augment areas like PG in which we are weakest. DD
Bonzi is proving right now that he's been misused by JVG this year. He's great and way better than snyder! I can't believe how much some people overrate snyder.
Time for this thread to be locked. Man, Im glad we didnt trade Bonzi! I dont wanna think about where the Rockets would be in the game without him right now.
I hate to say it...err...I'll gladly say it -- I TOLD YA SO & EAT CROW!!! Lets hope we can hold on and win though
I hope that's not directed to me because I NEVER advocated trading Bonzi, or any Rocket for that matter. But to all the haters who did, hope it tastes good.
