wtf are you smoking? i seriously doubt denver would try and trade camby away after the year he just had, they would probbably want to ship out kmart instead. and andres from the bulls? that'd probably not going to happen either. if we could really pick up these players though... and i thought jr smith couldn't play D?? isnt that one of the big reasons why denver lost those close games??
well, if i were Morey, i wouldn't trade Shane for Camby straight up. Camby's a 34-year old glass man who's best position is center. J.R. (assuming his reckless driving injuries haven't affected him at all) is worse than Snyder and dumber too. i'd rather have Head any day of the week and twice on sundays. and the 26th pick for this year's draft alone is worth at least a good backup big man or even a marginally decent swingman (Morris Peterson), but not quite a full MLE player though. i do agree that Nocioni will never be had for the MLE.
TMac's best position is point forward... we can't keep wearing him down by playing him at SG which requires him to chase down smaller and quicker guards around the perimeter. Battier is a solid defender at 3, not quick enough to guard 2s full time, and too much of a tweener to play 4. The redundancy at SF makes Battier expendable. If you ever wonder why the Rockets don't run in transition, its because our guards cant finish. If you watch Luther Head, Shane Battier, and/or Rafer Alston on the break, its like a train wreck. Often, you'll see TMac walking the ball up-court even though passing is much faster than dribbling the ball up, because theres no one to pass to that can finish on the break. J.R. Smith, Kirk Snyder and Bonzi Wells are great transition players who should help in that regard. The bonus is that J.R. Smith can hit the perimeter shot.... remember when everyone was talking about how J.R. Smith was the steal of the offseason? He's a steal because is value is low as a result of his attitude. Denver messed up because they put an instigator like J.R. Smith alongside with hot-heads like Melo and Iverson. If you put an instigator next to passives like TMac and Yao, you got a different type of chemistry that could work out in the Rockets favor. I think Camby is better at the C position but also has the tools to play PF. He has a solid jump shot that he hits consistently out to about 18 feet. Hes mobile and long, runs in transition, can pass, help defend, etc. The fact that hes the 'glass man' allows him to be within our reach. Normally, I dont think anyone would trade the defensive player of the year for the would-be defensive player of the year. The Nuggets are too stacked at the PF/C positions and need backup at the 2-3 positions where Shane can jump in and contribute right away. Denver needs spot up shooters and cap relief, a combination of Luther Head, Shane Battier, Bobby Sura's expiring and our 26th pick should make it worth their while to move their defensive center-piece and their most althetic wing not named Carmelo Anthony.
Is Nocioni even a starter at the SF/PF? I still think hes a fringe... mid-level type player. Plus, his buddies Ginobili and Oberto live in-state and Adelman's style could really help to boost his value. I would split minutes evenly between Nocioni and Camby at the PF position. With Camby sliding over to 5 whenever Yao needs a rest.
Battier guarded the other teams best perimeter player regardless of position last year. He even got Chris Paul duty a few times. He's not strong enough to be really effective against back to the basket players, but he guards everyone else as well as just about anyone in the league.
If he's capable of guarding the opposing teams best perimeter player regardless of position, where was he when Deron Williams was killing us in the playoffs?
And Chris Paul torched us. Battier guarding Paul isnt a testament to his defensive ability, its a testament as to how we have no other option of guarding perimeter players. To Battiers credit, he does do a good job of anticipating driving lanes and stepping in for the charge... otherwise, his lateral speed isnt good enough to really pester quicker guards 48 minutes a game.
Nocioni would be an unequivocal starter if it weren't for the "potentially" awesome Deng. not to mention the developing Tyrus Thomas. now that's a team with trade assets. skilled (and in some cases, not so skilled) PFs and Cs are always overvalued. and then PGs somewhat. Nocioni still has quite a bit of "potential", but otherwise he's basically a poor man's Battier, which is more of a complement to Shane than a diss to Nocioni. so in that case, i would just rather keep the rich man's Nocioni and use the MLE packaged with the #26 in a sign and trade for a real player (non free agent), and stay away from Camby who at best has 3-4 "good" seasons left in him, and very possibly only 1-2. good meaning 60+ games at close to his current level of play. the last thing the Rockets need is another injury riddled player or yet another player in the twighlight of his career. not to mention, i don't think he's a good fit in a Yao centered offense. for a center he's quick enough, but that advantage is weakened at the PF position. yes, i would take him for free or even the full MLE for a couple seasons, but not at the cost of trading Battier who looks to be a very solid role player to have alongside Yao for the next 5-7 years.
1. If he's not starting, than he's not an unequivocal starter. That's like claiming your car is the fastest in your neighborhood if it weren't for the Corvette in Harold's drive-way and that Ferrari in Dan's garage down the street. Fact of the matter is that he isn't starting and shouldn't make starter cash. Also, if he's a poor-man's Shane Battier, couldn't you argue he should be making less than Shane, who makes just about the MLE? I agree with you that there might be some teams that are willing to over-pay for Nocioni. Those teams that have lots of cap space will likely chase after Rashard Lewis, Vince Carter, Gerald Wallace, Chauncey Billups, etc. Milwaukee may be the only team with cap space on the market for a backup 3/4. Everyone else is limited by the MLE. I disagree that teams think he has "potential" or any "up-side." The guy is already 28 so what you see is pretty much what you're going to get. 2. You cant package the MLE in a trade... or at least that's how I understand it. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. 3. Camby may have only a hand-full of seasons left, but last I checked, our window is about 3-4 years. Isn't that why we traded Rudy Gay for Shane Battier? You'd be crazy if didnt pull the trigger on a trade that sent a role player for Marcus Camby who put up amazing numbers last season (11 pts, 11 rbs, 3 asst, 3 blks). How do you figure he would fit poorly with Yao? Because he's tall and plays C already? You think that Juwan Howard, Chuck Hayes, or Anderson Varejao is a better fit? I think ppl under-estimate Camby's mid-range/perimeter shooting. The guy can step out to 18 feet and hit the shot with regularity like Juwan Howard. He can rebound better than Chuck Hayes and has the length and speed to bother opposing PF/Cs like Varejao. He is a world-class shot-blocker and is the leagues defensive player of the year. His health concerns are legitimate, but for the price we pay, this is a steal.
i wasn't talking about cars in another person's driveway. i'm talking about cars in my own driveway. if i have two quality cars, i can still only drive one at a time. in the Rockets case, Nocioni would probably start over Hayes. he would also probably start on close to half of the eastern conference NBA teams. that's all. he turns 28 in the end of november, but has only played for 3 seasons; his rookie season, his sophomore season and 51 games of last season. he still has a bit of development left. regarding Shane's contract, i believe it was undervalued somewhat (good for Houston, but not so good in that it's hard to get equal value back), not unlike Cuttino's similar contract with the Rockets. Shane would easily start on the majority of teams in the league. as for packaging the MLE in a sign and trade, i was talking about using the MLE to sign a player another team was interested in. more specifically, a team that already used their MLE or a team that was under the cap and therefore was given no MLE, but wants to use their cap money to sign a major free agent, but would no longer have any money to sign any significant role player. this would probably require some creativity on the GM(s)'s part. Camby has nowhere near the reliability of Battier in the supposedly 3-4 year window. also you have to think beyond T-Mac's productive career (current contract) when Yao is just hitting his 30s and hopefully still in his prime. i think Camby is worth over $7 million a year, but i don't think he's worth Battier. i'm not saying it's like Portland trading away Jermaine O'neal for Dale Davis which at first looked like a steal for Portland. but Davis was an all-star in Indiana and when he came to Portland at the age of 31, his best years were long gone. assuming Camby stays healthy (big if), he still turning 34 around the time the playoffs start next year. consider that he's only one year younger than the ancient Juwan Howard, who in the right environment (Washington) played well enough that he could fool management into giving him $105 million, and i don't see acquiring Camby at the expense of Battier a good idea. don't get me wrong, Camby could be an excellent addition, even if he's spent less than 10% of his career minutes at PF (per 82games.com) and none last season. as for being a steal, the dude is owed $30+ million the next 3 years. i don't even think Rashard Lewis is worth that kind of money. for $10+ million per year, the Rockets need something much closer to a sure thing.
I've heard Cav's try to dump players for cap space, one player mentioned that they try to get rid of is drew gooden. Since this is a dump cap excise for them, we can trade sura and Tsakalidis for gooden, it give us a pf for nothing and cap room for Cav. can this be done?
