Oh really. You have posted no evidence that Armstrong has doped or been caught for doping. But yet someone brings up how the German rider Jan Ullrich got banned for 6 months for testing positive to amphetamines, and you defend him to high heaven. I wonder why, could it be you are German and like your national rider in the Tour? Then we have these beauties: Greg Lemond is the last American who won the Tour - fair and square. Lance gained some time again today due to his abuse of banned substances. Sooner or later, I will be vindicated here. The truth will come out. I can't stand Armstrong. He is an arrogant prick. It's his whole demeanor...the way he said after the last Tour that Ullrich did not really wait for him when that was clearly the case...etc. I admire how he won his fight against cancer and he is a great athlete, but there is something about the guy that I cannot stand. On to top of that you start discrediting another American athlete Florence Joyner(RIP). But when we bring up factual proof Jan tested positive for illegal substances, you don't rip him to shreds. Finally, if this is what Dylan said to you(if it was worse than I take back what is below this point): And until then you will look like a giant *******. A) That is not that offensive. B) What the heck do you expect when you act the way you have in this thread(and your evidence of Lemond is not factual) C) You could easily be considered trolling in this thread on the virtue of your posts, so you could be as reported just as easily, except no one has done so as of yet. And don't tell us you are just joking about Lance, your posts and the amount of them tell the truth about your real feelings.
after reading jackie chiles posts and reading where he reported dylan like a little girl, i feel like i've been taken on de tour of de sir kook. you don't happen to be related to screamingrocketjet do you?
Not that offensive? Niiiiiice... Anyway, obviously, I cannot prove more than the circumstantial evidence that is already out there. If the public and the cycling authorities considered that sufficient to ban Armstrong, it would have happened already. This is all I can post so far: Among O'Reilly's charges are these: In June 1999, during the Dauphine Libere race, Armstrong told her that his hematocrit level -- the relation of oxygen-bearing red corpuscles to white in his blood -- was 41 percent, or nine below the legal maximum. "Everybody in cycling knows you can't win with a level as low as 41 percent," she is quoted as having said. "What are you going to do?" "He looked at me and said, 'Emma, you know what I'm going to do; I'm going to do what the others do.'" She added: "I knew exactly what he was going to do." In July 1999, before the perfunctory medical examination that precedes each Tour de France, Armstrong asked her for makeup to cover bruises on his arm caused by injections. The authors say that the many legal injections of vitamins, iron and recuperative agents that riders receive are always administered in the buttocks; the upper arms, they contend, are better suited for such illegal substances as EPO, human growth hormone and steroids. In May 1998, after the Tour of the Netherlands, Armstrong gave her a bag of empty syringe needles to dispose of. In May 1999, during a training camp in the Pyrenees, she was sent to the team's headquarters in Spain, where Johan Bruyneel, the Postal Service team's director, gave her a container of about 24 pills that she delivered to Armstrong two days later in a parking lot in Nice, where he then lived. In July 1999, during the Tour de France that he was easily leading, Armstrong had a positive finding for steroid use. "I already knew about the steroid because Lance had told me," she is quoted as having said. "He said he had used a steroid before or during the Route du Sud the month before, and he thought it would be OK for the Tour. He thought the drug would be completely eliminated from his body." To resolve the looming scandal, she continues, Armstrong and two officials of his team decided to attribute the steroid to a cream used to treat saddle sores. Since Armstrong had not listed such a cream or treatment on his obligatory medical form, the team's doctor, according to this account, filled out a predated prescription. At a news conference during the Tour, Armstrong explained the appearance of the steroid as a result of his treatment for a saddle sore. The storm passed. Afterward, O'Reilly is quoted as having said, Armstrong told her, "Now, Emma, you know enough to destroy me." Asked for comment Monday, officials of the Postal Service team said they were preparing a reply. Reporting from the weeklong Dauphine Libere race, where Armstrong finished fourth on Sunday as he prepared for the Tour de France, L'Equipe said Bruyneel replied "no comment" when asked about the book. O'Reilly is not the only witness cited in the extract. Also mentioned are Stephen Swart, a former rider from New Zealand, who alleges that Armstrong paid him $50,000 to allow Armstrong to win a series of races in 1993 in the United States with an overall prize of $1 million. Kathy LeMond, the wife of the American rider Greg LeMond, who won the Tour de France three times, is also quoted at length about threats that Armstrong allegedly made to him because he had spread doubts about Armstrong's victories in the Tour. http://www.active.com/story.cfm?story_id=10776&sidebar=676&category=tdf2004_peloton So, I will admit that all I can quote at this point is: - a positive finding of steroid use, which, however, might have had other reasons - a witness claiming an instance of bribery and fraud - a witness claiming an admission of doping (yes, hearsay, I know) - a witness claiming attempts at threats and blackmail - the fact that one of his closest advisors is a doctor who is widely known as one of THE doping protagonists in the world (somewhat similar to the BALCO connection with some track and field athletes) With regards to Ullrich, yes, he was definitely tested positive for amphetamines, and he claims that it was a one-time incident of having taken two ecstasy pills. I don't know whether to believe that or not. It's a fact that the whole thing happened while he was not even active as a biker, he was recovering from a serious injury. It might be a lie - but there is nobody else claiming that he routinely took drugs while he was racing, as it is the case with Armstrong. Ullrich was caught because a German anti-doping agency tested him, and the test was unanncounced previously, so it is not like there was some kind of favoritism here to cover up something. Anyway, I'll stop posting on the Armstrong doping issue until better evidence and/or proof will be out for everyone to see, since it obviously riles up people here who feel personally offended when things like that are said about an American (and even Texan). However, I will say that I am disappointed by people like you, DVauthrin, and people like Dylan who resort to personal insults or say they are "not that bad", and who have been here for years and should know better. In this whole thread, I did not insult any other poster personally. I merely stated my opinion about Armstrong's involvement in doping and cited reports which provide quotes and circumstantial evidence of the same.
By the way, I can appreciate KingCheetah's posts - he obviously disagrees with me, but he does it with a sense of humor instead of resorting to primitive insults or condoning them. And yes, I am talking to you, DVauthrin, dylan, esse, and Texas Stoke.
COMMENTARY: KIRK BOHLS Armstrong shows why he's king of the mountain — and the Tour Friday, July 16, 2004 LA MONGIE, France — Contrary to the perception that, say, Monsieur Yogi Berra would have at this barely-past-halfway point of the Tour de France, les race es finis. Maybe not completely and irrevocably over, but it's in that neighborhood. On the first real mountain stage of this 21-stage Tour, Lance Armstrong lapped the field. Stunned 'em. Crushed 'em. Whipped 'em up one side of a steep and very slick Col d'Aspin and down the other. Forget the fact that he didn't even win Friday's 12th stage or even take over the yellow jersey on a day with weather so extreme that it went from dark thunderstorms to dazzling sunshine within an hour. It's just a matter of time, and Armstrong now clearly has that on his side with another critical mountain stage awaiting him today. Armstrong has put so much time between him and his top rivals — more than 2 1/2 minutes alone on 1997 Tour winner and five-time runner-up Jan Ullrich — that he might be considering riding his Trek carbon bicycle backward for the last nine stages. The five-time champion is too gracious to say that or to gloat over his dominant performance that realistically could take all of the fight out of Ullrich and other strong contenders like Tyler Hamilton and Iban Mayo. But Armstrong has been around the block and up these mountains enough times to know that riders don't make up the kind of distance that Austin's Armstrong put between them on Friday. Not without miraculous, superhuman efforts. And especially not with the kind of pedal-pumping strength that the fresh 32-year-old American exhibited in racing up the final ascent out of his saddle. He could have won Friday's stage but willingly gave way to CSC's impressive Ivan Basso in the final 100 meters. And even though Armstrong didn't win here Friday, you could have fooled everyone from his nine-man U.S. Postal team to the throngs of media covering the race. This quaint village high in the Pyrenees was abuzz over Armstrong's command performance. The rest of the Tour, however, was aghast by the separation, especially over Ullrich, who finished 20th on Friday and is 16th in the overall standings, 9:01 behind. "Jan's not finished," Armstrong said. "Although he might have taken one on the chin today, he'll come back strong." Even Ullrich's T-Mobile coach isn't so sure of that. "It's a very big surprise for the whole team that Jan couldn't keep up," said T-Mobile's Walter Godefroot, who also owns the German team. "It's no good to comment on that right now." His stern face did, however. Hamilton's situation wasn't any better. The former Armstrong lieutenant now riding lead for Phonak fared so poorly that two of his teammates finished ahead of him. He complained afterward of heavy legs and a sore back, ominous signs that he's not ready to contend with Armstrong for the top pedestal on the podium. The day didn't go well for Mayo, either. He's the Spanish climber for regional favorite Euskatel Euskadi team, which had so many day-glo orange supporters on Friday's stage near the France-Spain border that you could have sworn you heard a little "Rocky Top" blaring. Mayo started the day a good four minutes back after his crash last week and is so far behind Armstrong's back wheel that he might as well pedal into the Mediterranean. He dropped a little shy of seven minutes off the pace. Roberto Heras of the Spanish cycling team Liberty Seguros also floundered. He surrendered more time as well, dropping to almost seven minutes behind Lance. "We didn't expect to be making this much time," Armstrong's U.S. Postal teammate Jose Luis Rubiera said. "We are really happy. We did much better than expected. Actually, our rivals did much worse than expected." Ullrich started this Tour with a bad cold and had to be sniffling after Friday's disastrous developments. He appeared heavy-legged on the ascents of the two climbs and now has to prepare for even tougher mountains starting today with six climbs, a harsh uphill finish and the possibility of bad roads ahead. "He's a tough guy," Armstrong insisted. "He's just started slow." Of course, Armstrong could run into difficulty on today's grueling ride, or encounter unexpected sickness or an uncooperative pothole. But he's looked stronger and even more focused than he was a year ago, when he outlasted Ullrich by a mere 61 seconds. Maybe he could have outsprinted Basso to the finish line Friday and won his first stage of this Tour. He applauded the Italian's strength and expressed support for his cancer-stricken mother, who is at her home outside Milan. If he did pull up and let the spunky Italian win the stage, that's a winning gesture. Just like everything else about Armstrong's day. http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/shared/sports/tourdefrance/2004/17bohls.html# Supporters urge Lance Armstrong up the final ascent of Friday's stage near La Mongie. For Armstrong, a sixth Tour title looks assured. Armstrong, showing class. And I had no idea our own basso was in the race, won a stage, has the first name of Ivan, and is Italian. Not that there's anything wrong with that! Who would have thunk it??
Anybody get the distinct impression that SJC has the "German" phrase "The Lance, The" tattoo'd onto his back?
Good morning everyone...(Sat 07/17/04...6:15am This just in...OMG 13:05 CEST 81km/124.5km to go The peloton goes through the feed zone and there is a bit of a traffic jam. Eki grabs his musette right at the front of the peloton. Hamilton has stopped. He rides backwards through the caravan and climbs into the team van at the feed. That's a terrible blow for Phonak, but after Hamilton's loss yesterday he was no longer a GC threat. The pain from his fall in Stage 6 and quite possibly the mental anguish of losing his dog Tugboat can't have helped. .
SJC, Passive aggressive a little? You didn't 'just post something LeMond said, you made multiple posts about nothing more than accusations, then stated your still unsubstantiated conclusions. At least own-up; you're being disingenuous.
I never insulted you. Never once. But good grief you have taken this issue way too far for someone who by their own admission is "joking." And how dare you judge my character when I made no mention of yours. I have every right to rip into you for doing so, but I'm not going to, so have fun with that. You reported someone for the equivalent of calling you a whiny jerk which unless your claim does ever come to fruition, would be a pretty accurate assessment. I'm sorry but I don't find it that vicious. I've seen, read and heard much worse. If it's a cultural thing, I apologize. But as an american and texan, he didn't go too far in my opinion. Plus, don't act like you are just playing innocent here. You clearly have an agenda against Armstrong, and he has never tested positive for doping. I mean, if you don't, then why are you not on Ullrich's case about actually testing positive and not supporting him? I'm not going to say anything further on this, but for you to say I have no class after the way you have demonstrated yourself in this thread is ridiculous.
You said (this was the gist of it) "It's not that bad if someone calls you a giant *******, what do you expect?" I take that as an insult, and as a character attack. Have fun with that.
Fine, I'll agree to disagree here, but I was not attacking your character in any way shape or form. I apologize if you thought so, I was just pointing out how you just maybe, brought that comment on yourself with your posts in this thread and how your stance on Armstrong is inconsistent with that of Ullrich(who shares your nationality). Perhaps I should have done it a different way, but I wasn't trying to insult you. But in all honesty, I mean if I was acting as you have in this thread I would have seen it coming, especially since people on the board like Lance which should be expected. And I was stating my opinion that he should not have been reported for that and I stand by it. I apologize if you thought I was trying to take cheap shots at your character, but that wasn't my intent. I apologize.
[Edit: deleted other part after DVauthrin's post] With regards to Ullrich, I did state that I don't know if he is using illegal substances now, but I don't think so. Obviously, he should be condemned for having taken amphetamines, whether it was an ecstasy pill or not, and whether he was injured or not. Also, I stated from the beginning that I don't like Armstrong, so I am not hiding that. I can still joke about the whole "dispute", though, and so can KingCheetah, which is refreshing. I apologize if I hurt the feelings of people who regard Armstrong as an idol. I can understand that he is a role model for many, and will therefore, as I said, not repeat the accusations unless new facts come out.
Didn't he say that you would look like an *******? May seem like semantics to you, but I would think that all of us have had friends tell us we are acting like an ass or jerk to help us realize what we're doing. Not saying that's what he meant, nor saying what he did was right, but among a group of friends this generally doesn't rise to the level of any other readily available epithets.
Yup, it does . Anyway, he edited his post within minutes, so I consider the issue closed. Besides, the moderators apparently don't mind me being called that anyway, as is evidenced by their non-action . I can rile people up at times, so I shouldn't be too sensitive when someone lashes out at me .
It's difficult to communicate the connotation online, which would make all the difference. But generally calling someone you know an ass is not a personal thing. I imagine the administrators would hesitate to reprimand anyone for it's use because it can be rather trivial. FWIW, and IMHO.
Yeah, I do it all the time with my friends...but I think it's a bit different when people don't really know each other.
Kinda like accusing someone of doping without a single shred of proof. Don't be so sensitive SJC. You've been fueling this fire from the beginning, so you should expect to take a little heat.
