memphis is a train wreck, what is their seed in the west? and don't put words in my mouth, i never said that hollinger's stats are wrong or useless, i don't need them other than the fact that i can't watch every player and every team
Good player. He should be making Gallo/Batum type money instead of what he’s making, but since Memphis already got below the tax, it was stupid to dump him for less talent when they’re trying to contend…Or at least they shouldn’t have dumped him when his value was at an all-time low. Coming off a 47% shooting season: got offered a high lotto pick…During a down season shooting 40%: got offered Tayshaun Prince…Is it really that hard to see that it was a bad time to sell? Sounds like their new owners are just really cheap and wanted the immediate cash savings.
i don't need hollinger to tell me james harden is incredibly efficient despite his poor fg %. i was on board for the trade from day one and before the si article came out saying he was the third best one on one player in the league i was arguing he is a top five overall player.
This is what happens every time. A classic argument shift. No one is talking what thier seed is. I very clearly said offensively, which you blatantly ignored.
the grizzlies team is built around their two big men and they would be stupid to trade one to keep gay. zbo is the last of a dying breed with his back to the basket game and gasol is a true rebounding and defensive presence. with conley being able to shoot threes and not making max dollars, rudy is the guy who has to go. the grizzlies can downgrade at his position and keep the same quality of play. fastbreaking more and utilizing gay's skills would have been a detriment.
actually it would have been impossible. Because Randolph and Gasol refuse to run the floor. And that is the crux of the issue. Rudy only had Conley willing to run consistently with him. Everybody else couldn't have given a rat's ass about running.
They have a terrible offensive coach who has a track record of misusing talent - that's why their offense is bad. Mayo, Vasquez, Lowry...all players Hollins didn't want because they didn't fit perfectly into his pre-determined system...all thriving now in new situations.
The thing about Gay is that he seems to be capable of being a superstar but he just consistently doesn't do it. Although his inability to not do it consistently means he's not a star. Some nights he looks great out there but then other nights he'll shoot terribly and not do much else. He's not old by any means but at this point you figure he would've become the man or not.
I agree with a lot of people here that Gay is a pretty inefficient player, but I'd still take him over Battier. If you think back to the playoff series that we lost, Tmac was the only creator on offense, the only perimeter player opposing teams had to pay attention to. If we had another guy who could get his own shot out there with him, we might have fared better. Obviously there's no way to know for sure, it's just a hunch I have.
not to ramble on on the subject but if only for the 07 season that was a bad trade. Not only does miami have james and wade they have bosh chalmers miller etc. The rockets were fooled about how good their role players were against dallas. Wesley barry sura and others provided much needed support on offense. Gay would have changed the entire dynamic in 07
If you look at reactions from Memphis/Toronto or just regular basketball fans, they more or less echo the sentiments here. So I disagree with you that there's bias from the Gay/Battier trade. Granted, there probably are a few people here who still have lingering sentiments from the trade, but mostly the debate revolves around using newer metrics vs old school metrics. And from what I've read of the trade elsewhere, it's the same argument used by others too.
I think a lot of the polarization regarding Gay is what he is making. Meaning, if Gay were making 6M/yr, peoples opinions would be much more positive. Sure, his efficiency wouldnt be any better, nor would any aspect of his game, but for this kind of money I think most would consider him a positive asset. In other words, expectations would be lower. You might feel you were getting your moneys worth. But at 19M/yr, you expect a first tier player. One that excels at many aspects of the game. And so Gay bashers line up in droves. At this level of salary, he does not contribute across the board on the same level as most making the same. And while his inefficiencies on offense can be made an issue as to hurting his team, the greater hurt comes from tying up so much cap space having the inevitable consequence of not being able to resign your better players and/or building a deeper bench.
He should be making 8-10 mil a year, but other than that he is a good player. No everyone in the league has 60 TS%. However they shouldn't have traded him right now. The raptors are after pau if they get pau and have pau, lowry, gay I think they make the playoffs and maybe the 2nd round.
The idea that a rookie Rudy Gay, a player who had a sub 50 TS% and more turnovers than assists, would somehow have been a "shot creator" that turned the series around, is utterly ridiculous and just shows how people think "he dunks and can iso, that means he would have been a shot creator like Evans. And that's not even accounting the whole defense thing.
