?!!?? EG was drafted 7th in a much weaker draft, has since failed to develop to expectations, and you figure Toronto is gonna give us the 4th this year and their 2nd best player for Griff/cap filler? Wow... Mac Beth - You think the Rockets would give away EG for AD?!!?? WOW...
Sam... yeah, that is funny,. but their games are entirely different, and it all favors Bosh. Since the season ended, Bosh has done 2 things...grown to 6-11, 225, and more importantly still, blown away team after team in workouts, especially with regards to athleticism and shooting. The five key elements to scounting a player are body, athleticism, attitude, accomplishment, and skill. Bosh is way ahead in terms of athleticism, which is an extreme strength for him whereas it was a minor downside to Griff...He has a better body, and the fact that he's added 15 lbs of muscle, just since the season, and if anything increased his athleticism is amazing...attitude is no comparison either; Bosh is considered an extremely bright and hard working guy, is a memeber of the National Honor Society, and a few Engineering Societies...Eddie is, well...not so much. Bosh was considered the best HS player his year, and Eddie was up there as well...Eddie was freshman of the year in his conference in some votes, Bosh was ACC FOY in his. Their numbers are very similar, except for the scary % difference, and Eddie's 4 something blocks/game to Bosh's 2 something...In terms of skill, Bosh is better inside and outside than Griffin was, is a better man on defender, ball handler, etc. Griffin was a better shot blocker. And then there are the questions: Eddie punched teammates...Eddie had a pf's defensive game, a sf's offensive mentality, and a tweener body. Eddie played without passion. Bosh's only question is can he bulk up...and he's already doing it ( as said 15 lbs of muscle with no loss of athleticism/explosion), and considering his age, is actually quite developed, and is still growing according to most reports. As of the latest he's damned near 7 feet, 225 lbs and has a 7'3" wingspan. Eddie had poor workouts, Bosh is blowing people away... I don't think that, considering criteria and question marks, there is any question that Bosh is drafted ahead of Griffin. To suggest Griff would be battling with Melo is ludicrous.
But he wont be missing many paychecks ..his contract goes through until he is 38 or 39.. he has 4 yrs left on his contract ending at 13 million..Toronto eats this contract.
Mobley >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peterson Taylor >> Davis (including all considerations such as age, contract) Griffin << Bosh???????? Afterwards, we would have Peterson, who was HORRIBLE last season. We would also have Davis, who is over the hill and has a ridiculous contract. Finally we might have Bosh, who would have to be a HUGE, HUGE upgrade over Griffin to make up for the other crap we would have to swallow with this trade. Is Davis shooting 40.7 % from the field and missing almost half the season at 35 not an indication to you that he ALREADY IS on his last legs? What more of an indication do you need? Ah, perhaps Morris Peterson with his 39.2 fg % makes up for that? If you really think Bosh will be so much better than Griffin, why not just try to trade them Griffin and cash for # 4 and filler. All the other stuff is just plain scary. Fortunately, the Rockets are not that stupid of an organization.
Did the Raptors leak some info. to the media about a trade between the Rockets a coulpe of year ago? Does anyone remember the players involved? I think Rudy "Xed" that trade after that incident.
The last thing the Rockets need is another sh!tty long-term contract. Davis is solid, but c'mon. Unless EG is taking a dump and smearing it all over Carroll Dawson every practice, he needs another year or two before making any long-term decisions.
Interesting...so for Mobley vs. Peterson, you ( I think correctly) just go on who is a better player, never mind that Peterson is younger and cheaper...and then when it comes to Taylor and Davis, you reverse the thinking, and come to the conclusion that even though Davis is a better player, Taylor's being much younger and cheaper is reason for him being better. Hmmm...and you consider Davis' age and contract to be problems, but the fact that Taylor has a drug problem hanging over his head, has had exactly one fewer healthy seasons (none) than Davis has had injured seasons, that Davis is among the fittest and toughest players in the NBA, while Taylor has a constant weight problem, and is softer than margarine, and that Davis is a leader while Tayor is considered to be, at best, a neutral, and Taylor ain't exactly getting table scrapings as pay...don't you think you're being a little bit of a homer? You offer every GM in the league their choice between Taylor, with all of his accompanying factors, and Davis...and you think it's even close? Let alone Taylor > Davis?!!?
Think about this. NVE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fisher Campbell>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Horry,Walket or whoever else Jones>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick Fox The Lakers didn't win the title until they got rid of those players who were better individual as opposed to team players.
Good point, but I think the Lakers mainly won because Kobe and Shaq got more experienced and a lot better. They got exposed last year for their lack of depth.
MacBeth- Griffin over Bosh out of college still. It was a nice to omit Griffin's big stat- blocks. Bosh averaged a decent 2.1 per game, whereas Griffin led the nation with 4.4 per game. That was his eye-popping stat. Griffin's athleticism sure goes underrated- I promise you, he wasn't getting those rebounds in college with his bulk. (As a side note, Griffin even averaged more assists than Bosh). Edit- meant to send this whole post earlier. Anyhow, this is all superfluous. Without pulling them up, Griffin's height/weight/wingspan measures were very similar to Bosh's; I don't see how that is a deciding factor. Griffin put up more points, rebounds, blocks, and assists. At a very minimum, Griffin and Bosh would be a close call, perhaps due to the off court issues (the teammate punch things). The whole point of this was that this year's draft is not stronger than 2001. Anyhow, for the Rockets, I'd draft Ford with the #4 pick anyway. And there's still no way in hell I'd trade Griffin for Davis.
Lol! I was a Rockets fan first, am probably more Rockets fan than Raptors fan, but am, as you say, a fan of both teams...so that's my criteria for objectivity on this...yours? You are also pretty much 50-50 Rockets/Raptors fan, and as such have both teams' interests at heart, I suppose? Plus I live in Toronto, am not from here...
1)Re-read post... I mentioned Griff's block advantage...when talking about his advantages... 2) Griff's athleticism may be underrated...I'm not sure...but it ain't even close to Bosh's. According to the workouts, his agility/speed/leaping stuff is coming off like Garnett. 3) I don't think there is any way you can say that Griff comes out ahead of Bosh...He came out behind Shane Battier...you saying that Bosh would be behind Battier!?!? Eddie had HUGE questions...which turned out to be accurate...and not the same upside as Bosh...I don't see your argument.
Sorry, but you are clutching at straws now. Mobley is 27 (soon 28), Peterson 25 (soon 26). Davis is 34 (soon to be 35), Mo is 26. The difference between Mobley and Peterson is irrelevant, they still have many years in the league. The difference between Davis and Taylor is huge, and there are VERY few players who can more or less keep their performance level beyond 35. Also, Mobley has a "cheap" contract, even though Peterson's right now is a little bit cheaper, but if Peterson plays decent, you will probably end up having to pay him more than you are paying Mobley now. Davis' contract, on the other hand, will pay him $ 37 mio. over the next three years. Why in the world you even suggest that the Rockets should throw their money away at a 35+ player like that is beyond me. At least Mo Taylor should be able to keep his current level of play for a few years (which, admittedly, is not saying a whole lot). I am the last person to say that Mo has exceeded any expectations for the Rockets. But if you ask me whether I want a 26 year old guy or a 35 year old guy that just missed almost half of the season, had a 40.7 FG % for the last season, actually decreased his FG % for each of the last six seasons, but receives $ 37 mio. over the next three years, then, my friend, the answer is clear. Case closed. Edited for lack of ability to quote properly.
Just to clarify, I would love to trade Mo Taylor for a cheaper, better player - just not for a washed up old guy with an even worse contract. Tell you what: If it's Taylor, Moochie, Griffin for Davis and the No. 4, then you got me thinking, but not before that.
MacBeth, I think your engaging in a bit of hindsight regarding Eddie's perceived athleticism (you don't block 4 shots a game at 6-9 or 10 without being able to jump out of the gym). I dug up this old article regarding such. I don't know about you but I don't recall anybody saying this kind of stuff about Shane Battier: Prospect Watch: Eddie Griffin By George Rodecker Special to SportsLine.com Jan. 2, 2001 Already the superlatives are piling up, already the runners who work for the agents are around his games. Eddie Griffin has the tools to become an NBA superstar.(AP) For a kid expected to go directly from high school to the NBA, Eddie Griffin is sure playing college basketball at an alarmingly high level. There is virtually nothing he cannot do during a basketball game other than possibly sell beer, because this already dominant kid is too young to handle alcohol, but skilled enough to handle competition. The current NCAA leaderboard shows him No. 18 in the country in scoring at 21.8 points per game, No. 1 in rebounding with 13.2 caroms per contest, and first in blocked shots with a mind-boggling 5.5 rejections per game. Eddie Griffin is one of the best players to come onto the college scene in the last 20 years. There are just so many superlatives to use that it's almost embarrassing. But let's begin by saying this. If Eddie Griffin plays a minimum of two years of college basketball he will very possibly be the first pick in the NBA draft. He will play NBA ball at a very high level, and he could potentially, in a 12-season NBA career, play in 10 All-Star games. He is simply that good! Eddie Griffin Class Freshman College Seton Hall Height 6-2 Weight 195 High School Roman Catholic Hometown Philadelphia, Pennsylvania His game is one of grace and finesse mixed with explosiveness, all molded into one slightly framed body. His leaping ability defies description, and the many blocks he garners are as much a testament to his ability to get to the place a shot is being taken as it is to his super-elevating leaps. Several pro scouts thought Griffin would be an NBA draft pick playing this season in the pros and were surprised he enrolled in the quickly rising Seton Hall program. But they're thrilled he chose to play collegiate basketball and hone his skills. Griffin can handle the ball and take his man off the dribble. He can break down defenses, run the floor in remarkable time and end a break with either a ballet-type move or a thunderous finish. Through diligent effort on his part, Griffin's jumper seems to be expanding its range each game. The rebounding and shot-blocking prowess displays his defensive energies quite well. So why then are the scouts so happy he's still in school, you ask? Simply, Eddie Griffin is an outstanding pro prospect who needs every minute of the college experience he's getting. While all the skills are evident, the ability to play consistently at the highest level has yet to develop. And while Griffin is really quite good, he can become a great college player. Unlike Korleone Young, who unsuccessfully attempted to go straight to the NBA from high school, or Al Harrington, who has languished on the Indiana Pacer bench after bypassing college, Griffin can mold himself into an NBA-impact player. The college education he is currently getting on the hardwood is immense. The ability to grow up as a person, that Seton Hall affords, is grooming him for all the challenges he's face in his chosen field. A second collegiate season is the probable difference between goodness and greatness for Eddie Griffin. George Rodecker is in his tenth season of providing expert analysis on the NBA Draft. Unlike most other draft evaluation services, Rodecker has been diligent in pursuing analysis by acquiring the consensus opinions of experts. Rodecker also writes for Basketball Times, Eastern Basketball and College Hoops Insider.
So now he's washed up...While playing through his first ever injured season, and because of the Raps overall incredible injuries, playing when he would have normally sat out, Davis averaged about 14 ppg and 8.2 rpg...Which would put him at 3rd and tied for 1st on the Rockets respectively, in his worst season as a starter, and while playing hurt for the first time. If that's washed up, we need more of it... But I'd also like to clarify my position: I am not advising this trade. I am a Griffin believer. What I am saying is that A) If people ( as most did before Griff's excellent work during the offseason ?!?!!?) think that Griff's development is not happening, or not something we can afford, the trade I suggested makes perfect sense, and is a classic example of give and take. But I am not among the many (who now seem to have bought into Griff's incredible improvement over the off-season) who wanted to bail on Griff last year, and get a tought veteran power forward...and B) Your reasoning in this, as Nike's, strike me as extremely one-sided.
That was one of the articles I had read about Griffin before the draft and that's why I was so happy we got him. Oh well. I still hope he can elevate his game - it's probably all about the attitude with which he approaches that. Anyway, he has sure grown a lot within the last two years!!!!
