I seem to remember a huge number of suggested trades during/just after the season, begging us to acquire a veteran power forward in the Kurt Thomas/Antonio Davis/etc. mold, and more than willing to give up Griff as part of it. And that was before we got JVG, who loves AD type players...I am a huge Griff fan, and put in the qualifier for this deal on Griff's status within the organization, but what now puzzles me is what has Griff done since the end of the year to warrant this reversal of popular opinion on him. Isn't he the guy being called among the Rockets biggest ever 'busts' in another thread right now? I don't agree with that assesment, but I did think it had become pretty commonly accepeted in here that we couldn't really afford to wait for Griff to develop much longer, and many had doubts he ever would get any kind of post game/aggression, etc. I only based this being a very good trade idea on the assumption that, unlike me, most people here were of the same opinion re: our power forward spot/need for tough veteran as during the season, especially the end. JVG would seem to add to that slant. Are we getting back into that usual off season mode of " Everything's coming up roses...Webber!!!?!? Nah...don't need the likes of him! Maybe we can package Cat and Griff for Garnett?" etc. thinking, and forgetting about the reality of the team and what we saw during the season?
No, but that still doesn't mean we have to give up a young player with upside for a 35-year old, injury-riddled guy with a ridiculous contract .
Absolutely horrible trade idea. Griffin's potential may never be realized, but I think he can end up putting 12/8/2-3 for the next 5 or 6 years for us. Davis, at most, has 2-3 good years left. What then???? Not to mention that his $12 mil per year is better spent on another, better player. My heart will sink if we give up on EG for nothing more than A.D.
Kurt Thomas makes about $5 million and has 2 less years on his contract. He's also 4 years younger than Antonio Davis. Davis is almost 35 and makes about $13 million a year. Those are big differences.
actually, in the short term (if AD could stay healthy enough) it would help Houston, at least on the court. of course it would completely tie our hands with regards to the cap, esp if it was rice being dealt. So he would HAVE to be the missing link to make this deal even remotely worthwhile.
As far as Griffin may or may not be away from contributing, Davis is far closer to being unable to contribute (due to age). His game is in decline- not only is it a bad sign that he was injured this past year, but his FG% has dropped in each of the last SIX years. And let it be noted, as much as Griffin's crappy FG% gets busted up, Davis was barely better (.407 vs. .400). If you take out all the 3s Griffin hoisted, Griffin outperforms him fairly handily. His contract is horrible. The ONLY way you take Antonio Davis in a deal in which you lose Griffin is if the #4 pick is coming back in return. MacBeth- I wholeheartedly disagree that this year's draft is much stronger than the 2001 draft. Lebron and Darko are probably a stronger, but 2001 was much deeper, with the huge HS crop, Griffin, Battier, Gasol, Joe Johnson, Jefferson, Murphy, et. al. Even a guy like Zach Randolph, who was always considered a top talent went late teens. Davis may be Toronto's 2nd best player, but he's a terrible contract at an advanced age, which matters just as much. In this draft, Griffin would probably be battling Carmelo Anthony for the #3 slot. Go take a look at what Griffin did his freshman year vs. what Bosh did this past year. It's not even close. This just sounds like the author reaching. It makes absolutely no sense for the Rockets to trade a talent like Griffin, and presumably a very nice contract chip in Rice for an on the decline, overpaid PF.
Maybe for half a year, and that is only assuming that Griffin does not improve at all (questionable), that Davis's skills remain the same in spite of injuries last season and age (very questionable, not many big men keep their level once they are older than 35, sometimes the decline is very drastic, just look at Hakeem who was FAR better than Davis in his prime), and finally, that Davis will be healthy and ready to go (questionable).
This could be another rumor, but think about it seriously. Davis,Peterson and the 4th pick for Mobley,Griffin and Taylor. That 4th pick could be used on Bosh and he could be brought along slowly to replace Davis in a couple of yrs. Toronto gets Taylor a scoring 4, backcourt help for Vince at the 2 and a young player in Griffin. I don't see anything wrong with that. I think it helps us more than them in a way. Davis has 3 yrs left on his current deal while Taylor has 4, so its not that big of a deal in my eyes.
" Injury riddled"? ..." If he can stay healthy"...? In the past 4 seasons, Davis has missed 39 games total...or an average of less than 10/year which, for a banger, is not much at all. He's really only had one injured season, and even there he played almost 2/3 of the season. But, again...I am not ready to give up on Griffin. But I was a minority on this subject during the season...what has happened since to change peoples' minds on Eddie?
It keeps getting worse! Taylor is what, 10 years younger than Davis!!!! Taylor's contract is not nearly as bad as Davis'! What makes you think that Bosh will even be nearly as good as Griffin??? Why don't you just go and trade Francis and Yao for Davis and Skip to my Lou while you are at it?!
He missed 29 games the past season alone! His FG % was .407, how is that for a big man?! And again, he is 35 and has an outrageous contract! Please stop the madness...
Griffin+Taylor+Cato for Davis+#4 and I would do it. With the #4 pick draft TJ Ford or Chris Bosh. I would do the trade just to get TJ Ford, how much longer is Davis's contact?
I second, 2001 class was stronger than this one. Once Kwame rights the ship and Griff puts up some stats, the 2001 draft class will obtain the respect that it is due. With all those HS's, its no surprise it's taken longer to develop than other classes. I'm just glad we have Griff and please ROX don't give him away for a quick and mis-timed fix...it's called pre-mature trade-ulation.
thats a fair bit for a number 4 draft pick that may or may not turn out and an overpaid veteran.. how bout we put the mooch in there somewhere as well.. and whats the deal with the flood of EG trades???
I disagree. College stats: Bosh: 15.7 ppg, 9 rebs, .560 fg%, .468 3pt %...Griffin: 17.8 ppg, 10.8 rebs, .429 fg%, .320 3pt %... So you have Griff with 2 more points/rebs a game, but he took way, way more shots. Look at the percentages...Bosh shot way better from the field....560 to .429, a really amazing seperation, and shot better from outside, so it's not like he's just putting up layups. Add to that two more key draft factors: Bosh is 6-11, 225 lbs, and considered way more athletic than Griff was...and the reason Griff's stock dropped, his attitude, is considered a strength for Bosh. And the guy he would supposedly be 'battling' with, Anthony, doesn't have the same questions, and put up 22.2 ppg, 10 rebs, and shot better from the field and 3pt line too...and lead his team to the Championship.
Griffin's fg % is definitely a problem. He is a great shot-blocker. He should just concentrate on defense and the Rockets should work hard with him to improve his shot and fg % step by step. Anthony might just turn out to be better than Lebron.
Didn't he miss 30 of those 39 last year? including pretty much all of the last month of this past season? If he missed 6-9 games a season that would be one thing, but as you hit your mid 30's and start mssing more, well, it's not a good sign. I'm ready to give up on Griff, coming out of college, people said he was a tweener who plays with no emotion who needs a lot of work, well, he's still a tweener who plays with no emotion and needs a lot of work, and the chances of the proverbial lightbulb going off decrease with each passing day. Davis contract is horrendous, but if toronto takes on Moochies and or Taylor's with it, I might be tempted to do it.
Actually macbeth, Bosh and Griffin have eerily similar profiles on NBA draft.net, it's almost scary: Eddie Griffin Ht: 6-9 Wt: 220 Athleticism: 10 Size: 10 Defense: 10 Strength: 7 Quickness: 9 Leadership: 8 Jump Shot: 9 NBA Ready: 9 Rebounding: 10 Potential: 10 Post Skills: 9 Intangibles: 6 Overall: 107 NBA Comparison: Tim Duncan Strengths: One of the top overall talents in college basketball already... Has all the makings of a future NBA superstar.. Only 18, and has a ton of physical developing to do, a scary thought... Can stroke shots all the way out to college 3... Similar to A-Rahim with his smoothness, and offensive skills, but has even more athleticism.. Very strong post and intermediate game... Has excellent rebounding and defensive skills.. Very calm court demenor, (similar to Tim Duncan) doesn't get rattled easily.. Sometimes the lack of emotion gets confused with a lack of desire, but it's there... Weaknesses: Ball Handling abilities are not super... Needs to get alot stronger.. Needs to get nastier (on the court).. Character questions have resulted from two separate incidents involving off the court fights with teammates, one in HS one in College Chris Bosh Ht: 6-10 Wt: 210 NBA Comparison: Tim Duncan/Kevin Garnett Strengths: Very quick off the floor and can really rise…6'11 lefty who may still be growing and can step out and hit deep ball…Quicker than most college big men, especially those his size…Solid handle for his size, that looks as if it will only get better…Good face up game and turn around jumper on the block…Soft touch on shot and hits high percentage of 3's…Takes good shots (almost to a fault) …Is comfortable with ball on the perimeter…Works hard for good position in the post and has good footwork down low…Can dribble with either hand…Gives big target for passer when posting up…Can block shots…Good at boxing out, solid rebounder, who should only get better as he adds weight/strength…Sound passer…Decent FT shooter…Active without the ball…Solid defender…Intelligent player and supposedly very coachable. Weaknesses: Needs to add a lot (a whole lot) of strength to bang in the post in the NBA…Would like more moves in his post up game…Very poor at pick and roll, weak setting screens… Wonder whether smaller, quicker NBA players expose him on the perimeter…Gets pushed around rebounding and in getting position in the post. needs to improve hands catching passes…Lacks constant focus and intensity…Does not go after shots he could easily swat…Needs to improve mid range game…Has a lot of work to do before realizing his potential. The fact that they mention eddie griffin and Tim Duncan in the same sentence ought to be a crime against humanity, btw.
How is that making it worse adding Taylor? See the thing is, alot of people on this board over value our talent and under value other teams. These are the same posters who say this was an extremely talented team but we didn't make the playoffs. The thing is, you have to give to get. If they want to get younger and we want to unload some of those bad contracts, make it happen. No one is a fortune teller to say Bosh will be better than Griffin, but if college is any indication, the verdict is clear. I know that can't be the rule, but every report from Bosh the prospect is that he's a very hard worker. I've never read a report anywhere that said Griffin had a great work ethic. Work ethic is what seperates good or avg players from really good player. Look, the draft isn't a exact science by no means. Anyone who saw the 1986 draft knows that. Anyone can also attest that if you want to improve your weakness, you will have to give a little to get a little. I , like Macbeth proposed a similar deal. Mobley,Taylor,Griffin for Davis,Peterson, and #4 pick which would be Bosh. How does this help our team. Davis gives this team the so called banger and dirty work player everyone thinks this team needs. Peterson is really a throw in team player type of players. He's a guy who doesn't need the ball in his hands and is a pretty good defender. He's basically insurance in case Posey leaves. Bosh is the player player who will play alongside Ming for yrs. With Davis,Cato,and Ming holding down the 4 and 5 spots, he wouldn't be rushed into playing before his time. His progress in stregnth would be gauged and he could earn his minutes every yr until he's ready or Davis is finallyon his last legs. The trade helps Toronto also. They get capable scorer in Cat at the 2 and Taylor at the 4. They also get help in Griffin with his "potential" playing the 4 spot if the would like to bring Taylor off the bench. Looking at the positives and negatives, I don't see why its not a good trade for either side. My problem is, other teams probably could offer a better package. My other thing is, any trade to acquire a veteran player has to include Taylor and his salary.
