The best <b>all-around</b> players of my generation: Lenny Dykstra Greg Maddux Randy Johnson Joe Carter Larry Walker
YESSS!! You are correct, sir! He is better than ARod when it comes to all-around and definitely better than Jeter.
Huh? How (aside from being a red sox fan) so you figure that? Power? wrong. Durability? wrong. Defense? Maybe, and if so just slightly. Both are better then Jeter, I agree, but if I had to pick one it's Arod in a heartbeat.
I think the only way to compare players across generations is to ask how they stacked up against their contemporaries. Given the game they played in at that time, how did they perform. It's not even close when you look at it that way....Babe Ruth is far and away the most dominant player in baseball history, and perhaps in all of sports history. This is a man who was knocking the crap out the ball even in a dead ball era. The year he hit 60, the next closest guy had like 19. He hit more homeruns than every other team did that year!! Sure McGwire hit 70...but the same year he did it, another fella hit 63. To me that really cheapened the feat. I mean a record stands for nearly 40 years and then all of a sudden out of the blue two guys break it in the same year!!?? Come on!!! Ruth was simply amazing and defined baseball for generations. There was no one even close to him in his generation...there was no comparable. I'd argue that Willie Mays is the best overall baseball player of all time. His career numbers across the board over many different categories are absurd. Couple that with the fact he was a fantastic centerfielder. As for pitchers...I'd go with Lefty Grove who dominated the during the most offensive era of baseball ever. You think today's offense is high??? How about a year when the league average of all hitters is .300...and that includes pitchers...there was no DH back then!!! Amazing. And Lefty absolutely dominated hitters, even then. Milo Hamilton says Greg Maddux is the best pitcher he's ever seen. There's something so simple about Maddux. He just hits his spots better than anyone else. His numbers are obscene given his career has spanned over an offfensive era as well. I think I'd give that nod to Pedro though...the problem is, his career can't measure up to Maddux because he hasn't been doing it that long. But when you talk about who was most brilliant for a span of a few years, Pedro ranks up there. Along with Koufax of course. Barry Bonds is easily the greatest player of this generation, in my opinion. No one even approaches his career numbers. He's the essence of a complete player. He is vastly underappreciated, though I acknowledge a lot of that is his own fault. I think we've seen the peak of Griffey's career already. I predict this guy will end up retiring way earlier than anyone would have expected. I think he finds his numbers to be disappointing and I think he's bored with the game now.
Garciaparra's lifetime OPS has been .951 A-Rod's lifetime OPS has been .945 Rodriguez is younger and has been hurt less. Garciaparra has played more years in a hitters' park. Now, both players are in good hitters parks. Both players are head-and-shoulders above Jeter. I'd give the nod to A-rod, but it's damned close. Closer than I thought, actually.
Again, huh? Arod is younger, has a slightly lower career OPS, played more in a pitcher's park, and has been injured MUCH less, right? And it's damned close? Look, I would never ever turn down Nomar on my team. He's a fantastic player, and if it weren't for the injuries I think it would be different. But Arod is clearly better, and it's not "damned close".
dylan: I expected A-Rod to have a substantially higher life-time OPS. Didn't realize Garciaparra had a couple of REALLY GREAT years. In fact, Garciaparra's best year was better than any of A-Rod's. I prefer A-Rod. I always argue for him being the best SS in baseball. But I didn't expect it to be as close, statistically, as it was.
Walter Johnson - Greatest Right-Handed Pitcher of All-Time. Bob Gibson Grover Cleveland Alexander Hack Wilson(5-6, 195 btw) Jimmie Foxx Honus Wagner Rogers Hornsby And Babe Ruth was the greatest player to ever play Baseball, consider this, he played around the same time as Frank "Home Run" Baker(This was actually his nickname) . Baker never hit more than 12 homeruns in a season, and fewer than 100 in his career.
The Babe, aside from being a dominant offensive player, annihilating anyone else in his era, was also an excellent pitcher for the Red Sox. If anyone is the greatest player of all time, one need look no further than George Herman Ruth. Willie Mays could do just about everything on a baseball field. Cy Young, a pitcher for whom the pithcer award was named. Roger Clemens, the only pitcher to gather said award five times, soon to be six. Ty Cobb, for nearly 100 years has he held the record for most runs scored, and another mentioned as a possible top 5 will be passing him soon, Ricky Henderson. Oh, and Manny, I think if you look at Juan Gonzales you will find hitting that is comparable to Manny. He is 2nd in the league in BA, or was about a week ago anyway (I haven't looked since then) and consistantly puts up huge RBI numbers.
That's the problem when you compare All-Time. How would Ruth do again Ryan? Cobb against Clemens? All great players...no arguement. But would Ruth/Cobb do as well in the current era? Would Wilt still score 100 points in current times? Maybe, maybe no. I think you have to break the players into 3 eras...maybe 4 but I don't know enough about pre 52 to break out another category. Pre 1952: Ruth Cobb Wagner Williams Lefty Honorable Mention: Robinson (This man went through more "stuff" than I could have and still played the game. Imagine being up to bat, infront of a hostile crowd, death threats are very real, pitchers coming at you and you still have enough left to get a hit.) 1952-1985: Aaron Mays Mantle Ryan Koufax Honorable Mention: Rose (He played the game like no other. Too bad about the ending.) 1985+: Bonds Clemens Maddux McGwire (Sure the current equipment and parks helped him but he help bring back baseball in a rough time.) ARod Honorable Mention: Griffey Jr (Great start, but I think he's done.)
haven, can you post the stats for us? I know Nomar hits for a better average, but A-rod definitely is the better power hitter. I'd pick A-rod, btw.
gr8-1: I'm afraid I'm guilty of some fuzzy math. Maybe I shouldn't add statistics in my head after midnight . A-Rod has had the best year out of the two. A-Rod has a lifetime OPS of .945. In his best season, A-Rod had an OPS of 1.050 (1996). Garciaparra has a lifetime OPS of .951. In his best season, his ops was 1.033 (2000). Nomar, however, has played a maximum of 153 games in a single year, and that was his rookie year. He's also played in one of the better hitting parks in baseball. Incidentally, ESPN ran an article about great years for SS's today. It's an interesting read if you want to check it out.
Haven, no worries. I'm on your side of this. That year Nomar hit .372 and almost drove ina 100 was nice. But, I think A-rod is the better player. Also, A-rod may be having one of the finest seasons for a SS this year. His projected #'s are awesome. When is DoD gonna drop by with a scouting report on Honus Wagner?
Do you know he hit a grand slam in his first at bat? As I recall, he got his nickname from clutch homers in the World Series--one off of Christy Mathewson, for sure.
Honus Wagner biography John Peter Wagner was born in Carnegie, Pennsylvania on February 24, 1874. He was one of nine children born to Catherine and Peter Wagner. Peter Wagner, an immigrant from Bavaria, worked in the coalmines to support his family. From the age 12 until age 16, Wagner worked in the mines with his father. At age 16, Wagner left the mines to work briefly for his brother Charley, who had a barbershop. Wagner's passion was baseball and his brother Al got him a shot with Steubenville, Ohio's team in the Tri-State League. Wagner was an outfielder and was paid $35 per month. He was an instant success and advanced to Patterson, New Jersey in the Atlantic League where he caught the eye of Louisville, Kentucky - then a member of the National League. Louisville managed to buy Wagner's contract from Patterson for $800. Wagner began his major league career as an outfielder for Louisville in 1897 and hit .338 that year. When the Louisville franchise folded following the 1899 season, owner Barney Dreyfuss bought Pittsburgh and asked Wagner to go with him. Wagner went to Pittsburgh and became one of the greatest Pirates ever. He hit .381 in 1900 and won his first of eight National League batting titles. Wagner helped the Pirates win three consecutive National League pennants in 1901, 1902, and 1903. In 1903, Wagner finally became a full-time shortstop after playing all over the field for many years. That year he helped the Pirates to win the first World Series ever played and picked up a batting title of his own. Wagner was bow-legged and stocky so he didn't look like an average shortstop. His opponents were amazed with his defensive skills. Wagner topped the National League in doubles seven times, in slugging six times, in RBIs five times, and in stolen bases five times. In 1909, Wagner helped the Pirates win yet another pennant. The Pirates also won the World Series Championship in 1909 after beating the Detroit Tigers in seven games. Wagner was still a good player at age 42 and closed out his career in 1917 with a batting average of .265. When he retired, Wagner led the National League in hits, runs, triples, doubles, and singles. Next, Wagner coached baseball at Carnegie Tech and operated a sporting goods store with Pie Traynor. In 1933, the new Pittsburgh Pirate owner Bill Benswanger offered Wagner a coaching position. Wagner coached the Pirates for nineteen years beginning in 1933. Wagner was probably the best player in the National League until the likes of Hank Aaron and Willie Mays entered baseball. He collected 3430 hits, 720 stolen bases and a lifetime batting average of .329 during his 21-year career in the National League. In 1936, Wagner was one of the first of five men elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame. Wagner died on December 6, 1955 in Carnegie, Pennsylvania and is buried at Jefferson Memorial in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
