I had an "Underrated" list (Just 1 player, Kevin Johnson). Was gonna have an OVERRATED/"Not My Kind" list, and put Tiny Archibald and Pistol Pete on it. Not cuz of lack of greatness but just not being "my kind" of PG. Its all subjective though Wrap-up of THAT distinguished list in there
in terms of PGs I have seen play Kidd would be in my top 5 magic isiah stockton Kidd payton now if it goes all time - you would have to be put in Oscar Robertson at #2 and bump out GP. Kidd in his prime was a beast - he took two really terrible Nets teams to the finals twice
Whom Ill take over Kidd (retired players) no particular order: Isiah Magic Stockton Glove Cousy Oscar Clyde Off the top of my head at least
Yea... In the era of the JV League East, that Conference was hot garbage. You see what happened when he played real teams in the Finals. Respect for him making it, but I have an *Asterisk* next to those 2 Nets championship appearances. Horrid Conference. The Lakers dont have asterisks for those Championships due to the fact they beat Champioship teams along the way en route to routing inferior Eastern Conference squads.
If anyone's interested in Morey's view on this, he is on the record saying that Chris Paul is the best point guard of all time in his prime.
Good to see Cousy getting some love in this thread. When you're talking all-time, whether a player changed the perception of the game or his position has to be a factor because everyone in the conversation is going to have gaudy stats and spectacular highlights. The PG that changed the game and the PG position during my lifetime is Magic. Magic and Bird, but especially Magic, made passing cool. Really cool. Unless you played ball before and after they came on the scene, you can't appreciate the change that trickled down even to the neighborhood hoops in East Texas. The guy that had that effect on my Dad's generation was Cousy. When watching his highlights, I'm amazed at how modern his game is. It's almost like Nash with better passing skills got transported back to the 1950's. You can make all the arguments you want about how The Glove would shut him down and denigrate the conditioning and strategies of the old-timers, but Cousy was the truth.
Top 5? Top 10? Top 15? Who cares. Everyone rate things differently. For me, Kidd is the perfect PG in terms of his leadership, his passing, his defense. But people will always value scoring more, hence Kidd might even be rated 15 or lower to some. If i were to choose any PG to create a Dream Team, I pick Kidd over Magic, as I would want my PG to pass the ball, while my shooting guard (Jordan) shoots the ball. However if you have Kidd as your best player or even 2nd best, then sadly your team is not that good. And just for fun, let me throw in another name in to the mix, tony parker. 3 championship, 1 finals MVP.
I assume you mean 86/87 Magic, yes? I understand Paul's PER is better, but I'd take Magic's 86/87 season, statistically or qualitatively, as the top. Moreover I'd take Magic 100 times out of 100 to start as a PG over CP3, whether at their peak or otherwise. Also, this is un-provable, but I believe Magic would be a better 3 point shooter if he played in today's league. I believe this of a number of players of that era, though. Magic's 3 % did start to shoot up meaningfully the last few years of his career as he focused on it more. A number of players of that generation didn't focus on it till their athleticism declined a bit. I think superstar players of this generation often have a better grasp of how effective a scoring play the 3 pointer is at a younger age, so don't discount it like some of the early 80's players did. And I like CP3 and agree with your view that when all said and done he could be a top 3 PG.
I have to give the all-time great nod to Magic simply because he was a power-forward playing the point guard and he was really a dominate force on both ends of the court! But a close second is Oscar Robertson (The Big-O) he is the player against whom all others labeled "all-around" are judged! 30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds, and 11.4 assists per game-an average of a triple-double for an entire season...... He finish his 14yr career with a 25.7pt, 9.5 asst., 7.5 reb. avg. 1.) Magic Johnson 2.) Oscar Robertson 3.) John Stockton 4.) Steve Nash 5.) Bob Cousy you can put Jason Kidd anywhere after these five. ....... ....... .......
A PG who can pass is good, but at the end of the day, you do need one who can score so the offense totally doesn't ignore him as a scorer. See: Rondo, Rajon. And Kidd wasn't just a bad shooter, he was a horribad scorer in general.
Honourable mention: Bogues! Go watch the veterans on NBA open court discuss the hardest (point) guard to play against. Go look up stats of assist to TO ratio, go look at who lead and ran that mid 90s Hornets team, go check his height and see what he managed to do. The guy is not top 5, but if I'm looking for a pure PG (passing, stealing, pestering, leading, defending), Bogues is in my discussion for top 10 all-time.
