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Top 4 pick or Bust!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Trackwell, Jan 17, 2021.

  1. luckyman76

    luckyman76 Member

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    Completely backward. I am not talking about trading Wall. We have to eat his bad contract. As an expiring there may be something that could be done about it. EGo does have positive value to playoff teams. The non-tanking crowd assumes that after two bad decisions in the contracts for Wall and EGo that we should compound the mistake by signing Dipo.
     
    Mr Woods, Plowman, Trackwell and 2 others like this.
  2. courtsidedreams

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    I dont think the guy was saying to trade everyone. At least i dont think we should trade everyone. But players like House, Gordon (+/-), Olidipo, Ben McLemore, PJ Tucker are all guys that have value and can garner assets.
     
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  3. courtsidedreams

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    You make a great point. You have convinced me. No full fledged tanking as there is rarely an appropriate return on investment. We need mediocrity and trades!
     
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  4. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    As long as Wall, Gordon, and Wood are on the team, barring significant injuries, there’s no way we’re going to be bad enough. I don’t think Gordon’s contract is easily moved without packaging a first round pick. Even with how good he is playing, he’s still a 32 year old, oft injured Guard who you’ll have to pay almost 20 million at age 35.

    Also, you might have missed them, but there has definitely been calls on the board to recklessly trade young valuable young players like Wood and Nwaba for the all-or-nothing chance at a top 4 pick this season.
     
  5. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    We’ll just have to disagree about Gordon’s contract. Going into the season it was literally one of the worst in the league. Hard to believe that’s done a complete 180 after a few weeks of good play.

    I’ve moved past the tanking or no-tanking argument. Their is literally nothing more to be said, and has become tedious and boring. I’m more interested in the hows and whys of tanking this year. There is a lot of space between recklessly trading away future assets for the chance at being bad enough for the chance at getting a top 4 pick this year, and resigning our entire roster for the long haul. I think the realistic and safer path to rebuilding is somewhere in between that range.

    Some have pointed to OKC as an example, but their rebuild started two offseasons ago, and the tanking hasn’t started until now. We haven’t had a single offseason yet to plan for rebuilding, so that’s a poor comparison. They even had a better team last year than we do this season. And for the record, they still don’t even look like a bottom 4 team this year LOL.
     
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  6. dmoneybangbang

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    Nah. You are wrong.
     
  7. Trackwell

    Trackwell Member

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    amen
     
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  8. deshen

    deshen Member

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    in the last 30 years, only two championships had no superstar developed from their own drafts. 2020 Lakers and 2004 Pistons.

    In another word, majority of championships (more than 90%) were won by teams who developed their superstar from their draft picks. If anyone think that trading for superstars will land championship for their team, good luck on that.
     
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  9. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member
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    Good news is that we’ll be picking in the first round of the NBA draft for the foreseeable future. But who needed that “top 4 or bust”?
    - Toronto in 2019 with Pascal Siakim who they drafted 27th?
    - or perhaps the Heat with 5th overall pick Wade
    - Lebron in Cleveland was the #1 pick..oh wait..he didn’t win there until after he left the franchise to win in Miami before returning in free agency...
    - Golden State with 7th overall pick Curry
    - Los Angeles’ dynasty with Kobe...oh wait they didn’t draft Kobe, the Hornets did with the 13th pick. Acquired via trade of Vlade Divac.
    - Dallas! Dirk was drafted...9th

    Duncan with the Spurs is a good example though, as well as Jordan with the Bulls at 3rd overall. A top 4 pick will ensure your guy is there, sure, but maybe Stone covets someone other than Cunningham (whom I’m not particularly high on) or Mobley. Getting into the first round mix was a great move by Stone, unquestionably. Top 4 or bust though? I don’t think it’s all that crucial.
     
  10. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    Of course it would be nice, but not the end of the world if we don't get a top 4 pick every season.

    Devin Booker (13th)
    Klay Thompson (11th)
    Draymond Green (35th)
    Giannis (15th)
    Kawhi (15th)
    Jokic (41st)
    Donovan Mitchell (13th)
    Paul George (10th)
    Lillard (6th)
    Rudy Gobert (27th)
    CJ McCollum (10th)
    Jamal Murray (7th)
    Michael Porter Jr. (14th)
     
    #830 DCkid, Feb 8, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
  11. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    Not sure that I qualify as a tank-or-nothing bloviator but here is the thing. The Rockets are only 3 games ahead of Orlando for the 4th worst record in the league (despite playing one of the easiest schedules in the league). Oladipo/Tucker/House are all subject to being traded (hopefully for younger, developmental pieces) and Wall/Gordon/Boogie are each load managed. This is a wacky year and the Rockets showed in their win streak that they have NBA players. But to insinuate that this team is somehow far above the "perennial bottom feeders" is just inaccurate. IMHO.

    The reason top 4 is so important is that the Rockets pick is protected if it lands in the top 4. If it is top 4 the Rockets keep it. If it isnt then they select the highest pick between OKC-Mia-Hou. If Miami turn it around then that could move the Rockets closer to 18 or 20 despite the Rockets having one of the top 10 worst seasons in the NBA.
     
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  12. blahblehblah

    blahblehblah Member

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    Its not an insinuation to say the Rockets are currently far above the perennial bottom feeders. Its a statement based on facts. As you noted, the Rockets are 3 games ahead of Orlando. 3 games is not a seemingly insignificant margin over the course of merely 20 or so games. If it weren't, one can conversely say the rockets are "only" 3 games away from having home court advantage, "only" 3 games away from being the 6th best team in the whole league.

    Lastly the gulf between the Rockets and the Magic is not simply 3 games. There's also 11 teams between the two.
     
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  13. DallasThomas

    DallasThomas Contributing Member

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    1. Odds are >50% that our 2021 pick is going to OKC no matter how much we tank.
    2. If we tank all year and the pick ends up being #5 or so, it goes to OKC and a conference rival gets a major asset.
    3. There is more incentive to tank in 2022 (the double draft), so if you're going to do it, set your cards up to do it next season.
    4. Tanking for multiple years will destroy team culture, and a positive team culture breeds individual success. Rookies don't learn from vets who are sick of losing playing time to a dumb kid who loses the team games.
    5. Rehabbing assets like Wall and Nwaba with a bounceback playoff year would net long-term draft capital of similar value to what tanking this year would net in the short term.
     
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  14. Nolen

    Nolen Contributing Member

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    Off the top of my head:
    Lakers and Shaq
    Heat and LeBron
    Toronto and Kawhi
    GS and Durant
    And I'm sure there's more I've overlooked.
     
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  15. dmoneybangbang

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    All those but Toronto had a superstar drafted by them. They may have gotten paired up when they were aging.

    Kobe and Shaq.
    DWade and Lebron
    Curry and Durant
     
    #835 dmoneybangbang, Feb 8, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
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  16. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member
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    Lakers didn’t draft Kobe; they traded for him. Which the rockets could do regardless of tanking
     
  17. dmoneybangbang

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    Fair but they might as well drafted him since Kobe wasn’t going to play for Charlotte.
     
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  18. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    I started the when can Wood get traded thread but it wasn’t about becoming worse to hope for more ping pong balls it was “let’s trade present value for future value”. That’s a totally different concept then let’s be as bad as we can be this year. The being worse this year is a side benefit to trading Wood when you believe he’s maximized his value, not a rationale for doing the deal.
     
  19. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    The good news is Miami is running out of time to really make a strong move into contention. I still fully expect them to make the playoffs but they really look like a 6th or 7th seed in the East. That would pick what- around 16-19. I didn’t expect them to pick any sooner than 20th at the beginning of the year.
     
  20. clutchdabear

    clutchdabear Member

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    i'm not for moving eric gordon just for the sake of tanking, and i don't think his contract is as bad as some think it is. he's getting $18M in his age 32 season (2021-2022) and $19.5M in 2022-2023. the 2023-2024 season is non-guaranteed (only guarantees if he makes an allstar team between now and then, or if houston wins a championship).

    essentially, after next season, he is an expiring at just under $20M. and he's still an above average 3pt shooter who plays solid def and can penetrate and occasionally create for others. he's gonna have value to some teams for sure.
     

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