Your point is a valid one Fatty, moderation is key. I guess the argument you're trying to make is healthier ingredients don't matter when you're talking about pure caloric intake. But healthier ingredients DO make a difference. Take Argentina for example... their meat consumption has always been ridiculously high, even higher than American meat consumption... yet they do not have nearly the high heart disease rates or diabetes epidemic we do. Do I think that its all purely because their meat comes from much more natural means than American meat? No, I do not. I think there are plenty of other variables involved, but I do think it does play a role. The problem is that many Americans are deluded into thinking that Fast Food is the "cheap" alternative when in actuality it really isn't. You end up paying for it one way or another. If you eat fast food 7-10 times a week, you are doing irrevocable harm to your body. If you can limit your fast food intake to moderate amounts, I applaud you... but portion sizes have almost tripled in Fast Food meals since they started becoming the standard American meal. I think the comparison I was trying to make is that in terms of ethics, In-N-Out represents a higher standard of social responsibility than McDonalds. Of course eating either source of food on a regular basis would be unhealthy, but McDonalds does employ certain practices that are loathsome, in my personal opinion. For the record, I did not just take into consideration some "Fringe movie" I did read more than a few books and did my own research on just where most of the meat in America comes from. It makes me pretty physically ill if I think about it, but I'm amazed how easily I can put it out of my mind if I walk by a Fast Food joint in the mall and smell the food. Out of Sight, Out of Mind I suppose.
I had a manger in a regional Tex-Mex chain restaurant that would do anything to try to get out of giving a complaining customer something free/new when they complained. I kind of understand. It's amazing what some people complain about. One time I had a lady freak out because she didn't like the shape of her taco salad. Every single ingredient was right and it tasted fine but she didn't like the shape of the big 'taco shell' that the salad came in, so she wanted something new.
I know it's easy and fun to post youtube videos, but you fail to address the two main issues presented in this thread: 1. The business model of McDonald's in America, which caters to low income families, blue collar workers and the urban youth. They know these people don't have the resources to understand it shouldn't be a part of their everyday diet, but strongly target them to be their daily customers. So naturally it's eaten excessively by them. Globally they present themselves as cheap dining for an affluent demographic. 2. Their treatment of employees.
Not sure if you caught the link above the video in my previous post, but their new head chef is working in the right direction. That CNBC documentary went at it on both sides, and it was quite interesting.
I agree with Fatty: anything at an excess is bad. Just in moderation, everything can be good for you. I drink, but not too much, 'cuz I know it's harmful. It's the same argument that I have against people who "count their calories". Just serve yourself LESS food. you know peeps that do this? Now THAT is bad. But having TOO MANY McDonald's doesn't do everyone any harm. Why do people hate the successful companies? I know, I know, the argument is HOW they become successful that those opponents bring up. So don't buy their food. Stay away. Don't go there. But... don't hate 'cuz they're successful. I might hate Michael Jordan... I won't say he's not the best basketball player that ever lived, it's just that he did certain things I wouldn't advocate... but I don't hate the basketball player... I hate the other things he does.
Truth. I dropped almost 20 pounds and I attribute it mostly to eating different Trader Joe's thai and indian rice bowls and other frozen lunches, instead of eating at the diner in my building for lunch. Those rice bowls are delicous and the Chana Masala with tofu is the only tofu dish I've ever really enjoyed.
So its fine to admire somebody's success as long as they are successful? Is that what you REALLY believe? You honestly would ignore how somebody became successful just because they are successful? My God what ignorance. Would you hate Michael Jordan if he became successful by marketing himself to your 7 year old daughter with a playful clown who lives in a magical world where everyone is happy all the time because they can go to a playplace while their parents stuff their faces with Big Macs? Ray Croc used the same industry model that Walt Disney did. Indoctrination. Get em' while they're young and they'll be life-long customers. Does that sound like good ol' American Atta-boy Capitalism to you?
Consumer demands dictate profit, and more and more people becoming aware of unhealthy fast food practices will lead to companies like McDonalds being forced to scrap their old unhealthy ways and move forward to at least a better alternative. That is a good thing.
McDonalds was certainly not the originator or by any means the only culprit doing this. EVERY kids commercial was that way.
How does a place that has traditionally eaten well over years suddenly gets obese when a McDonalds and other fast food place is placed there? Is the food that good, where they just have to keep eating there? Is there crack in the burgers, which they are addicted to?
The saddest thing is that people just don't want to know. People want to look the other way. That is the main thing I discover when I try to talk about the fast food industry. Even a man like my Uncle who is a CEO and an intellectual disputed most of my claims as if they were just nitpicky potshots at capitalism. People commonly think you are attacking them with snobby, liberal viewpoints and that you are only trying to find ways to elevate yourself above them. It does illicit a very personal response, but I really do think the more people become aware of what is going on, the more change we will see. I am not a "snob" trying to make myself look good... I'm not a vegan like my wife... I'm not at the point where I can commit myself to radical practices in the name of ethics. I'm not a PETA spokesperson and I largely detest their practices. I just think we're all being fooled by these Corporate Giants into thinking we are being good little Americans by eating their cheap crap. Its time to demand that our Leaders of Industry start caring more about social responsibility and less about profit.
It is both. Its like Alcohol and Cigarettes, there is a draw that sucks you in. The smell is key, our tastes and desires are largely dictated by smell, and the smells from fast food kitchens are mostly manufactured artificially by Chemical plants on the New Jersey Turnpike.
OK, Upton Sinclair... I really think their would be a much larger uproar if things were truly as dire as you make them out to be. And with lawsuits and the like, it isn't like the Government can quash people's outcries on this stuff. You read some conspiracy books. I got that. But it appears that is all they were. We'd be seeing far more on this if "quality F" meat were true. But I'm not finding much factually about that assertion.
If you really want to dig deeper into the problem of giant corporations controlling the food supply and pushing the farmer out of business just read the wikipedia entries on a company called Monsanto and you'll see why there have been documentaries made about the bull**** they've been pulling, and plenty of lawsuits that they've been forced to settle on. There is even a group called "Millions against Monsanto." Try and see how the Government can do anything about them when they have a monopoly on patented seeds and high ranking government officials in their back pockets. They answer to nobody. Checks and Balances need to be in place, and nobody checks them. As far as your claim of "conspiracy" I'd say Fast Food Nation admittedly is a bit radical, but nobody could dispute most of the facts he brought up in that book. If you want a little more objective non-Conspiracy viewpoint of the industry I really suggest you readThe Omnivore's Dilemma for an objective look at the evolution of the American meal. It is mostly based on facts rather than interpretation.
I don't have nearly as much disdain for fast food as a lot of other people in this thread, but the article you posted is a joke. I like how you cite an article about a chef creating items containing fried chicken wrapped in a flour tortilla and slathered with RANCH DRESSING as evidence that McDonald's is working to become healthy. The "diet" snack wraps are not even close to being healthy. A Ranch Snack Wrap? 340 calories, 17 grams of fat, 4.5 grams of saturated fat, and 810 mg of sodium. The one with grilled chicken is much better, with only 270 calories and 9 grams of fat, but 830 mg of sodium. Also, have you seen the size of those things? They're tiny. The funny thing about the perceived "diet" benefits of the Snack Wraps? The calories are so low because the things are so damn small. Compare the nutrition value of the snackwraps I just discussed with a regular cheeseburger at McDonald's: 300 calories, 12 grams of fat, 6 grams of saturated fat, and 750 mg of sodium. Make anything small enough and you can make people think its healthy through clever marketing.
Brought to you by the same people who only list the nutritional information for 8 ounces of soda on a 20 ounce bottle.
Just because you name a site "millions against Monsanto" doesn't make it so. I did notice that their facebook page has 40k. A decent number, but nowhere near a million. I get it. You don't like growth hormones. But it would appear that you're going off environmentalists stuff. That is fine. You eat healthier than I do. But read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" and what happened after it was published for some real perspective. And that came out before the internet!
