SA shot 44.2 % FG as a team. So did Houston. Since Steve's FG% is 4% lower Tony P's, Steve's teammates actually shot better than Tony's.
Quote by ragingFire SA shot 44.2 % FG as a team. So did Houston. Since Steve's FG% is 4% lower Tony P's, Steve's teammates actually shot better than Tony's. _____________ I guess since alton fords FG% is 54.5, then the rest of SA shot better. I guess since Yao shot 52.1% and TD shot 49.8, then he must be the MVP. You can't take a single stat and use it to justify your point.
I guess you got the logic wrong. ragingfire is correct. So Rox has poor shooters is not a good excuse for lack of assists. Team FGP SA = Rox Player FGP Parker > Steve by 4% So SA - Parker < Rox - Steve
They like intelligent players that much, huh? Then why do they still have Ginobili? If (and when) Tony cools back down, I can almost gaurantee you they'd more than happily trade him for Francis if it was at all possible (I'm not sure what kinds of cap limitations there would be). It would be the Rockets that would not be willing pull the trigger. You suggest this trade last year - or even just a few weeks ago - and people would laugh you off the stage for trying to make the team worse. And if the Spurs happen to LOSE a series at some point in the playoffs, then they'd be more than willing to drop Parker also I'm sure. Parker looks like he's playing amazingly right now because he's hitting his shots, which Francis used to do fairly consistently. Notice Parker only got only 5 assists last night to go along with 23 FG attempts. I'm not saying he's playing badly, but he's just doing what I know Francis is capable of. I haven't seen much from him other than some flash and some nice tear-drops and jumpers... Had his missed just 4 or 5 more of those shots, this thread would not even still be alive.
I asked on *how* (in more detail) they acquire their assist and turnovers. Not the simple definition of assist (or turnovers). Let me try and explain it... Francis drives to the basket, and draws a double team. He passes the ball out to the 3 point line, but the pass is sent to the shooter at an awkward angle, forcing the shooter to reach for the ball and regroup. Francis has a tendency to do this. So, how one throws the pass is a big factor on setting your teammates up. Since Francis is generally sloppy, his passes reflect this sloppiness as well. So, it's not all about "teammates missing." Francis has a lot of the blame due to his bad passing skills that contributes to this. And since Mobley and JJ are his most often recipients, I'd say that they've done pretty good job by themselves; shooting near 40% even due to Francis bad passing skill. This is only talking about passing to open players. Not creative passing. That's another story. The other issue is running the pick and roll. Francis wants to shoot so bad that he forgets to seal the pick properly. He drives, but does not close into the screen in order to get a solid pick. He does this a lot. This in effect nullifies the whole point of the pick since the defender can just follow w/out getting picked. This is a pattern. This does not mean that he does this all the time. He's just bad at it. This also has an effect on whether or not other players get open. I mean, why run the pick and roll of he busts half of them? He's just putting himself in a bad position to shoot or pass. This puts him in the postion where he forces the shot, thus resulting in a clanker, air ball or turnover. That's right. If Francis has multiple games of 5,6, 7 TO games, you will also have games that are 1,2,3. But that's the POINT. His range is WIDE. The erratic nature of his game turnovers cover a large range. This is to say that *many* of Francis turnovers occur in this range... Francis TO range is 1-7 Parker's TO range is 1-3. This is not meant to imply that *all* the turnovers are in this range for those players. But just shows a pattern that you look up on the game logs. They each have a tendency to acquire turnovers in these ranges respectively. At face value, 3.7 is bad. But when you break down Francis's 3.7 TO it's really even worse. For example another guard might have a TO range of 3.2 to 4.2. That average can be the same as Francis's 3.7. But do you see how this hypothetical guard turnover rate is not as erratic as Francis even though their averages are the same? Although that player would still average 3.7 TOPG, he wouldn't be dotted with very many 5, 6 or 7 TO games. So, not only does Parker have a 2.3 TOPG rating. He also has a narrow range. He has a lot of games where he gets 2 or 3 TO. Francis has a lot of games with 4, 5 and 6. This is very telling on how that player adjust and learns during games and the season. Francis also averaged a whooping 4.2 TO over the 5 game series. If you need more games regarding Parker... just keep watching. Addressing your statement, "Statistics should be taken as a whole, not on an adhoc basis...but the other statistical items off-set in the grand scheme of things." Not necessarily. *Other* statistical items do not necessarily "off-set" the negatives unless they are substantial. That's why I balked at your 0.3 block differential (putting aside the fact that we're talking about PG's here, not forwards or centers). Then you list a 0.7 asssist "advantage" for SF over TP? Those *other* stats are too insignificant to suggest any type of "off-set." (By the way, I didn't make a "big whoop" about 0.7 assist differential. You did. That's why I put "holy cow" next to a It's called sarcasm. ) The word I like to use is "compensate." So, no. Francis's *other* stats do not compensate for his turnovers, bad passing skill and shooting. This would not be the case if Francis would, say, average 26-29pts per game. Then maybe we could talk about *other* stats "off-setting" the other negatives stats. Or lets say that he achived 9-10 assist per game. Perhaps we could over look the 3.7 TOPG. But this is not the case. So you inclusion of those *other* stats are insignificant when you break them down. Sure, you can list them. But why? To prove a point? I think not. Regarding your "Francis is doubled teamed" comment. What games are you watching? Francis is rarely doubled. Francis draws doubles *after* he drives. But it's after this that he has the hardest time figuring out what to do. Parker is not doubled either. But when he drives he is doubled and then knows when and how to make the proper (accurate) pass to the open man. Putting those supporting guys in the best possible position to make the shot or lay-up. He makes it easy for them to score. It's not just a sloppy pass for the sake of passing. Parkers scheme with TD is a two man pick and roll in addition to the post. But Parker can run the pick/roll even when TD is not on the floor. Which means that he's still runs the pick accurately. He's still makes clean passes to other role players. He's still able to get clean shots when TD is not on the floor. TD does have a huge effect on how the team win as a whole, of course. But Parker is the PG that actually dictates the whole offense even when TD is on the BENCH. To see that, you have to watch the games. This is not obvious in any statistic. Francis does not dribble the ball off his foot 3.6 a game. He acquires 3.7 TO per game in NUMEROUS ways. Many of them unforced, the rest of them forced. And even when he does accumulate "forced" turnovers by a defender. It's the same type of pressure that Bibby, Nash and Parker seem to be able to overcome. Francis ball handling is not as good as you might think. He's easily flustered with the slightest amount of pressure. That's how defenders get him to turn the ball over so easily. They know this about him. And then you say, "Incompetent he is not?" Sigh... I don't think you can make the case that Mobley or JJ "quits." They all work hard. It's just that Francis's makes life hard for his other players. He thinks that merely running around with the ball trying to shoot is somehow supposed to make the team click. It does not.
It's not even close. Tony Parker does instinctively what an NBA coach wants a PG to do. Francis has to think about it hard or revert to 1on1 game. Over the past several seasons, Parker has become a much better finisher on a break and has added a tear-drop floater to his game. Francis....he's worked on his cross-over moves. And that's probably what he'll work on this summer, too.
You can somewhat say that because of his statistical step back this season, but otherwise that's completely unfair. Francis changed his game in a lot of ways this season to try to adjust to Van Gundy, hence the struggles (as you've undoubtedly heard countless times). The biggest way he tried to change was by improving his defense, and he did that. He also showed maturity and that we could count on him when we needed him towards the end of the season and in the playoffs. Not to mention that with about 15 games left last season, Francis was about to become the first player since Elgin Baylor to average over 15 ppg in his first season and still improve on his scoring average each of his first 4 seasons in the league.
What game are you watching? Parker's impressed me not with his scoring, but his quickness and court vision. Not Kidd level vision, but better than I've been able to see from SF. His passing is much better than I expected, and he's doing what a point guard should do. Did you see him directing Duncan last game? I still don't believe Paker a better player than Francis...but a better point guard is possibly much easier to justify. He's doing a lot more than just showing 'flash' and 'nice tear drops'.
Parker is as inconsistent as anyone else. There was a period this season of about a month or 2 where his minutes dropped and they didnt even start him and had him sit on the bench for a while because he lost his game. Yes he is a good player and he is coming through in the finals, but then again so did Steve.
I agree, and he was horrible in the finals last season, it was Speedy Claxton who came in and played well. However, he's young and is playing extemely well this playoffs.
You better recheck you info. Parker missed the first 7 games of the season with a sprained ankle . He started the other 75 games. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3527 Notice that he missed the first 7 games and played in the remaining 75. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?statsId=3527 Notice where it says "games as starter" and you'll see he started 75 games.
Absolute BS. Speedy Claxton averaged 4.7 ppg for the entire playoffs and outplayed Parker marginally in 1 game in each series. You've got your nose so far up Steve Francis's jock you'll resort to outright lies. What bizarre stuff are you doing with that Francis poster in your room? http://www.nba.com/games/20030419/PHOSAS/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030421/PHOSAS/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030425/SASPHO/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030427/SASPHO/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030429/PHOSAS/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030501/SASPHO/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030505/LALSAS/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030507/LALSAS/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030509/SASLAL/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030511/SASLAL/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030513/LALSAS/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030515/SASLAL/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030519/DALSAS/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030521/DALSAS/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030523/SASDAL/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030525/SASDAL/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030527/DALSAS/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030529/SASDAL/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030604/NJNSAS/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030606/NJNSAS/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030608/SASNJN/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030611/SASNJN/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030613/SASNJN/boxscore.html http://www.nba.com/games/20030615/NJNSAS/boxscore.html
If I were a GM, I would love to have Parker in my team. He is a true and great point guard. He will be better as years go by too. I do not think Francis is a great point guard. His decision on plays are very questionable. I do not think that he can run P&R or pass as effective as TP either. However, SF is ours and we should only hope that he and Yao will get better. I do not think that we can have TP. Spurs will not be silly to do it. They may want Kidd but not SF over TP at this point.
GATER, you need to chill out man, seriously. What does me making a comment about TP have anything to do with Steve??? Seems to me your the one with a nose up Parker's jock. How pathetic you are, get a life.
can't we just agree that: Parker is a better PG than Francis BUT Francis is a better player than Parker ?
What makes Francis a better player than Parker? The only area that is basketball related is his jumping ability. Parker shoots better, penetrates better, have better assit/to ratio, space the floor better and make better decisions. If Francis is a better player than Parker (assuming that shooting, spacing the floor, penetrating to the basket, better assist ratio and all that crab don't count), then a grasshopper is the best player in the world!! (Or perhaps a flea)
to be honest with you, and as much of a Non-Francis fan as i am, francis is a better player. you think Parker can lead a team without Duncan? In all honesty, Parker is a good player...and an even better PG. I like Parker but if it's not for defense scoping down on Duncan, Parker wouldn't be doing as well. Duncan is a difference maker whether or not he gets the ball...the defense will come regardless. Parker is intelligently taking advantage of that. You might say 'well Yao draws the defense'. Sure I GUESS i can agree with that but unless Yao is putting up Duncanlike numbers, he ain't Duncan. Other teams know this. They know Yao can't take over a game yet. That's why the likes of Brian Grant and Eduardo Najera are guarding Yao with good results. They know that even with Yao, steve is still the one they have to shut down. Parker is an intelligent player...moreso than Francis. He's been playing better at the age of 21 than Francis has at the age of 24. But lest we forget that Parker has played professional ball ever since he was 15. That's playing with and against people TWICE his age. Experience always wins out. And the things that you point out that makes Parker better than Francis are the same things that makes a good PG. And that's what i said...Parker is a better PG. You want to play statistician that's fine. I just think that credit needs to be given to where it's due. Parker is a better point guard but steve's a better player. Look back on his previous years. Francis was shooting around 43-44%, which is pretty respectable coming from a shooter that he is.
People might know that Parker actually already carried a team on his own. The French national team was composed of Average NBA players and top european players 6 or 7 years older than Parker. He was their leader against top european teams, not least of all against Yugoslavia... So we know what TP can do when he has no TD besides him. Off course, this does not compare to team of good NB players, but we are also talking about an 18 year old (at the time) playing point guard (most sensitive player spot) for experienced professionnal players averaging 28 years! If this is not talent, I don't know what talent is ... What's more he was widely recognized as a smart player by his peers! I haven't heard such things on SF. The only thing I've heard positive on SF is that he is undefendable one on one and that he has amazing hops... So much for a team. I am a Houston fan since decades, and I am not French, all I'll say is that we (rocks) need the qualities a PG like TP brings to the table. TP is way more basket-ball talented than SF, it is not even funny for a rock fan. TP is also so much more experienced than SF, this because of his NBA playoffs experience and his PG experience with senior teams from the age of 14. And he is also much younger!!! Steve is more athletically gifted than TP, but TP is much faster on the floor (physically and mentally). Steve's edge can arguably be attributed to age (muscular development) and size. You can also say TP is faster because he is younger. The only thing left for SF here is his jump. I feel both players have comparable shooting abilities. Parker is way more valuable than Francis at this stage. There is no doubt about it. Throw in the contract considerations, defense, behaviour... It gets even worse for SF. To be fair, it must be said that Francis has much more pressure on his shoulders: he is the team leader and he is the team's point guard. He is also the focus of the team's fan. This is one of the toughest job in the NBA. So the added pressure probably accounts for some of the TO's and bad decisions. TP on the other hand does not have to worry about leading a team through-out a season (he still did it when TD was not there). Pop has always shown TP love and confidence. Tp Knows he can mistakes (as long as it isn'talways the same ones over again), he knows it won't affect the credit he enjoys (it is often attributed to his young age). Yao is in avery similar position here. So the cost of a mistake is very different for SF and TP. I'd say that SF's contract is what it is because SF has more responsibility and is supposed to handle it.... So on this base, it may sound awkward, but other comparisons that could be interesting and fair are Yao versus Parker or Francis versus Duncan. The PG/player position skills comparison is moot, Parker wins hands down versus Francis.
