But what about our max contract player? Huh? Shouldn't he set the standard, at LEAST statistically? What you say would be true if we were talking about a bunch of role players. But we're not. We talking about our leader. Our supposed Franchise player. Our max-contract player. Do you understand?
In finance, we refer to the decision to give Francis a max contract a sunk cost. We can't do anything about that now. But in todays NBA, Steve Francis is a max type player. Believe it or not, he is our best player at this time. I hope that Yao will be soon! Wrong responsibilities! 1) Rebounder 2) Enforcer 3) Hustle Player (I'm not saying he shouldn't be diving for the ball... I'm saying he is doing it too much. Which pg does the blue-collar work that Steve does? Mo needs to move his fat #@#$) 4) 1st option (scorer) (Yao took too many games off. )
With the exception of #4. You just took away Francis best assets. What's left? Not much. Maybe ball boy. Now about lending your brain to him....what about that? Because he'll need that for that "court vision" thing we talked about.
You can't learn or be taught heart. That's his best asset. I think he swallowed his pride this year. He is getting there.
Excuse me. I meant "best assests (your list)" Add "heart" if you like. It wont matter. You've whittled him down to a role player with your "sunk cost." I'll ask again, what about that "court vision" thing? Remember, he wont be doing those other things, so he'll be able to concentrate on these smaller responsibilities, right?
He is learning HOW! He is learning how to lead a team. It took me some time, it is going to take him some time. This year was the toughest test (hurdle). It will get easier from here.
50 points, 14 assts and a freaking 2 to's in 2 games. This is unreal. Coming from a 21 yo, beat that stevie. Guys, we must remember, francis is already in his fifth year in the league. Yet he stil cant direct his team properly. Its hard to accept excuses that new system, new coach affects his play. If he is as good as he thinks he is, he should thrive in any system, can play with any coach. And my God, he is already on his fifth year and yet he still makes the same mistakes over and over again. He can stil cant finish a fastbreak. His decision making is one of the worst if not the worst by any so called all star pg's in the game. heck, even jwill's decision making is a bit better than stevie. He just sucks. Tony Parker is >>>>> than stevie bar none. Admit it. Next year, tony parker is going to be an all star and stevie, he would not even make it as a reserve. He just sucks.
Not true. Fans who like brain dead, shot jacking, dribbling machines like half the people in this thread will vote Stevie "The Franchise, All Heart, No Brains" Francis onto the all-star team. If it's up to the coaches though Francis won't get a whiff.
SF can't change his dumbness whoever he plays with, you can't change that, with the poor intelligience on the court I'd say Duncan-SF combo will be less effective then Duncan-Parker.
Wow, DavidS, it appears that TP is the model of consistency this year. I noticed in his last 5 games of the regular season, TP had 2,5,4,7,1 TO's. Not sure if I can find more info by game, but it appears that TO is as inconsistent as SF, except to the extent that SF averages approximately 1 less TO per game.
ok . . .steve dribbles because he is steve . . . d*mn the coach BUT Tony . . .well POPs has nothing to do with it . .it is just Tony being Tony To clarify . . . Why would steve not play tony's style becuase POPS demands it. . . . how do you know how Steve would play under POPs How do you know how TOny would play under JVG? Rocket River . . mmmmmm.. . . so coaching does or doesn't matter .. depending on how u feel about the player
Tony Parker is a better point guard because he is exactly that...a point guard. Steve is an undersized shooting guard forced to play out of position.
Hmmm, you take the last 5 games and then make a conclusion that TP is as inconsistent at SF? Great research you've done there bud! Do you know why they call it an "average?" Please tell me you do. And incase you missed it...check here: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3325/gamelog http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3527/gamelog As far as your statement, "it appears that TO is as inconsistent as SF, except to the extent that SF averages approximately 1 less TO per game..." Now, if that's not a contradiction, I don't know what is! Again, did you read anything that I've told you about averages and range of that average? I guess not. It seems that you've taken the difference between 2.5 and 3.7, get a 1.2 difference, then conclude, "Golly gee wizz, it doesn't appear to be very much. " Let me make it clearer for you. Francis total turnovers: 294 Parker total turnovers: 179
Quote by DavidS Hmmm, you take the last 5 games and then make a conclustion that TP is as inconsistent at SF? Great research you've done there bud! __________________ As you will note, I indicated that I had only been able to find 5 games worth of data. After finding some more detailed info, my sample was in error. I acquiesce, TP does a better job of not turning the ball over, but that is about it. Quote by DavidS Do you know why they call it an "average?" Please tell me you do. And incase you missed it...check here: Again, did you read anything that I've told you about averages and range of that average? I guess not. Because you seem to think that 2.5 and 3.7 TOPG is only about 1.2 difference, and "by golly gee wizz, that's not very much." _______________ Back at you on the averages, since you seem to be mitigating the impact of "average" rebounds, steals, block, et. al. to the overall players impact on a game. Again, SF is clearly the better player, not the better PG. A 1.2 TO difference is 98.4 more turnovers an 82 game season. Just like a .7 more assists by SF is 54.7 more per season, and 1.0 steals is 82 more per season, and 0.3 blocks is 24.6 over a season, shall I continue????? (note that if you take the differential between your stat and mine, SF provides the Rocktes with 62.9 more opportunities than TP provides SA, and that does not include the 196 more rebounds, which would add up to 258.9 more opportunities than TP provides SA). Not to mention the 155.8 more ponts in 2003 SF had over TP, in SF's worst statistical season of his career. Golly gee wizz, I guess 260, or 3.2 per game more opportunities to score is not very much _______________ Additionally, back to a previous comment. You keep talking about the way SF gets his unforced turnovers. My simplification of the TO explanation was designed to be flip. Since unforced turnovers in the NBA are typically steals. This is not tennis. last time I checked, a turnover was a turnover regardless of how it is attained, just as a steal is a steal, a rebound is a rebound..... Again, slowly, back away from the crack pipe.
I was referring to you post about "average" because you didn't take the whole year of TP. Just the last 5 games. As far as how that defines the player. That's another story. You take averages to paint a picture. And even then, the stats can be broken down on how they play-out on the court. Then, you also have watch them on the court as well. Now, the 1.2 TO difference is 98.4 per 82 game season. Yep, that's the difference. Francis average 3.7 for the year which gives him his high TO total. At least you see that! The .7 more assist is negligible. Although 54.7 assist more per season. Look at the totals: Francis: 493 assist Parker: 411 assist Please, spare me on the blocks... (33 vs 7). I'd trade in those blocks for a competent PG in a heart beat! If you want to list something as an substantial advantage, you can list rebounds. This is something that SF has been known to be good at. That statistic is enough to merit notice. Francis ppg has always scored more than Parker. But, Parker plays his position: PG. Francis is not a PG. He's s short SG, that is playing the PG. Couple that with Francis bad FG% it kinda defeats the purpose of SG now doesn't it? It's not always about just points. You have to look at a player's efficiency. Especially at the PG spot. Even if Francis was placed at the SG he'd still be inefficient. Yep. TP does a better job of not turning the ball over. That's the role of the PG. A position that Francis happens to be playing. Did you miss that? As far as "better player." You're definition of "better player," while playing the PG position, is clearly skewed. Move Francis to the SG position. See what happens. Even there he'd be only an average SG. A postion (SG) that Mobley is better at. To make matters worse, Francis would be at the top of the list in TOs again. It wouldn't matter. I mean, Mobley may shoot questionable shots. But at least he's not as dumb as Francis. For all SF's rebounds and steals. He'd still negates much of the effectiveness those stats by turning the ball over. Whatever he gains, he'll lose on the other end. So spare me the "SF has more opportunities." He gives away his opportunities. Plus, he's a bad shooter. I mean, if all you want is a shooting guard why waste you time with Francis? T-Mac could do a hell of a lot better. That's right. But you have to actually watch the game in order to see this. Else you would never know that many of SF TO *are* unforced. Unforced turnovers are just counted as TO. They are not tied to steals.
you can fudge the stats any way you want to prove whatever point it is you want to prove. Francis plays an extra 6 minutes per game, thats an 1/8 of a game extra and a lot of things can happen in that time. You're forgetting the fact that Francis has more assists than parker for the season 493 v 411, over twice as many steals 139 v 61, FIVE times more blocks 35 v 7, almost twice as many rebounds 433 v 237
Extra time to turn the ball over or shoot a forced shot? Yet, with those extra *six minutes (big whoop)* time he still plays dumb. "Time used unwisely."
