Tony Parker asked by Simon Wiesenthal Center to apologize

this **** is bogus.

 

it is NOT an antisemite gesture, i'm from france and watched several of Dieudonné's shows, you have to watch the whole shows to understand that. it is used for EVERYBODY, not only jews, this comedian take shots at many political personalities and journalists. To do a "quenelle" is like giving someone/something a bird. unfortunately stupid people, as there are everywhere, have done it in front of Auschwitz for exemple, and because Dieudonné is anti-ZIONIST (huge difference with anti-SEMITIC), politics/medias, somehow mislead by jews associations (jew lobby very strong in france), have made the amalgam. Now they want to cancel his shows, freedom of speech anyone ? But I understand why Parker apologized, consequences for his image and his bank account would have been too much even if there as no fzult and it was not worth fighting for

 

If Casspi levels Parker at our next game, I'll stand up and cheer. Admittedly, I'd probably stand up and cheer even if Parker had never been this stupid. I've never been a fan of the guy.

 

You do understand that the Nazi swastika didn't always stand for what it generally does now, as well, right? But, sometimes that happens.

There's no need to blame "jews associations" for the fact that other people have contorted a symbol to mean anti-semite. If that's what happened, that's what happened. what should their stance be? "I know people are going around and making this symbol at Auschwitz, etc. in a way that is clearly meant to be anti-Semitic... but that's ok, that's not what we think it means!!"

I mean, sure, if people are plastering happy face stickers at Auschwitz it might be a leap to then say smiley faces are anti-semitic. But that's not what is happening here. Instead, (1) a symbol that perhaps was originally meant as an "up-yours" to everyone (according to you at least), (2) which was originally popularized by an anti-zionist (which, even though it is different than anti-jew, is a difference that is hard to distinguish at times), has been (3) appropriated by meaningful enough segment of a population in a way to CLEARLY make it an anti-semitic symbol.

So, it's anti-semitic.

We have plenty of comedians in America who do racial jokes as well. But I damn sure believe that if Louis CK, or Chris Rock, or Russell Peters ever did something that ultimately took the path that the "quenelle" has taken, they'd cut it out of their act and actively distance themselves from it.

 

Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. It means you can't be thrown in jail. That's all it means.

 

i do not blame anyone, i just try to point a fact. i'm not a religion kind of guy, i dont stand for jesus christ or anything, so a guy can be jew, muslim, or whatever he wants i dont care as long as he respects my thoughts & freedom. what i care about is politics / medias / associations teaming to silence someone, in THIS situation IF all you hear about the anti-sionism, nazis stuff etc etc etc was true, all they 'd have to do would b to bring him to justice, but there r no real evidences so they try to cancel his shows. i agree this is a sensitive subject, that the Shoah was something terrible and that we should not forget, as the genocide of native indians, the centuries of slavery for black people etc etc etc ... but let's not blow things out of proportions, i dont think that the humorist, Dieudonné, is racist/anti-semitic (but hey, u never know, people did not hink Hitler as dangerous at the time). but thin line, ok

(+ in english it's difficult for me to be sure that what i really write what i want to ... so i hope i dont sound like a nazi or something like that ...)

 

If people flipped the bird at Auschwitz and took pictures, whould that symbol become antisemitic, or would the pictures themselves just be antisemitic?

 

Probably the pictures just themselves. But if it all of a sudden "caught-on" and you found people flipping the bird at all kids of obvious anti-semitic places, I think you'd a push for people to just stop flipping the bird in general.

Here, the push makes a ton more sense, as the quenelle was just a made up gesture by a guy with apparently questionable opinion of jews in the first place (apparently... I don't know), and part of its popularization seems to have come in association with its usage in anti-semitic ways.

 

Not really a questionable opinion. Dude has serious problems. His film was funded by Iran’s Documentary and Experimental Film Center. Looks like a great flick

 

Thank you. I am always surprised how many people don't understand this. Yes, legally you can say anything you want. But other people have the right to get angry at you for what you say.

 

but not the right to silence you, and it's kind of what is happening here

 

Parker may not have known... and I give him the benefit of the doubt since it sounds like in France many people may not be aware of the meaning of the gesture.

But it seems clear Dieudonne is bad news. According to BBS "Dieudonne made the gesture when he headed his own anti-Zionist campaign in the European elections in 2009."

And, yes, anti-Zionist is not anti-Semite, but making fun of the Holocaust in my book crosses that line, and apparently D is on record for doing that.

According to Wikipedia, "He has made 'heil' like signs on television as part of a sketch that made controversy, and has described Holocaust remembrance as 'memorial p*rnography'. He has been convicted in court seven times on antisemitism charges." And leading Holocaust deniers have supported his runs for various political offices over the past 5 years. Yech.

 

If it's a reverse Nazi salute, then wouldn't it be a pro-Semitism gesture?

 

The difference is when someone pokes fun at the prophet, their lives are threatened, riots break out, and the Muslim world goes crazy.

When someone insults Jews or Jesus, people get upset, at worst file law suits and move on with their lives.

That is the difference.

 

Sure. Just like drawing a reverse swastika would be considered anti-nazi, right?

 

to be 100% accurate, he did it while yelling "Isr-heil", his character was an israeli settler, he's against the israeli settlements in Palestine. this sketch drew ire from many associations ...

 

On the contrary. Being silenced by societal pressure is the only counterbalance available when you remove legal recourse. The special thing in our country is you can't be thrown in jail or have the government take your property. If you think this is not a significant distinction, talk to the thousands of people in Russia who got a special "amnesty" in advance of the upcoming olympics.

 

i get the difference, but it's not because one of the solutions is better than the other that it's a good one imo

 

Matthieu,

Just like Dieudonne's buddy Jean-Marie Le Pen (the godfather of his daughter, the French analog of the UK's Nick Griffin or America's David Duke), Dieudonne has a right to deny the Holocaust, or burn crosses, or do Roman salutes or whatever it is anti-semites in France do.

He can even be cheeky and claim it's just a joke. But when his friends who are NBA players do it, their boss, the BIG boss...the old Jewish guy in New York, David Stern, you know, the guy that enforces a dress code for players off the court? The guy who has carefully changed the image of the NBA for decades into a respected international brand?

He's gonna demand an explanation...and I don't think your brand of apologetics will satisfy his concerns.

 

oh, it wasnt sarcasm ?