Yeah Deck, thought I'd start it's own thread. I'm not against toll roads per se, but what just happened to Austin is ****ing ridiculous. * We will have 6 to 8 x more toll miles per capita than Houston or Dallas * All of our freeways will have tolls except 35 * They say that we will have alternatives to toll, but they're documents discuss how to NOT allow alternatives since it reduces revenues * New and existing roads already paid for will get tolls, and private, unnamed corporations will reap profits * The metro authority will have the ability to condemn parts of ZILKER PARK, and austin cannot do a damn thing about it * This $2.2 BILLION plan was rushed through in 3 months. Lotsa money and rushing things... hmmm... something smell bad? * CAMPO rec'd 500 emails in support of this atrocious plan and ALMOST 6000 AGAINST, yet ignored public concerns * Not only will our neighbors spend upwards of $800/year on our local overpass, but we will be paying other tolls all over town. I won't be surprised if some folks end up paying $2000 (AFTER TAX!) a year in toll taxes. The following post is an email I rec'd from Daryl Slusher who wisely voted against the plan. BTW, although I am left of center on many social issues, this is why I'm a conservative ... I HATE this new exorbitant screw-the-citizens tax b.s. (but I don't just blame Democrats for this, some Republicans have some complicity in this garbage also). Austinites, join the RECALL EFFORT http://www.stopdoubletax.com/about.htm Our mayor, Will Wynn will be targeted for recall first.
July 13, 2004 Dear Citizen: I am writing in reply to correspondence received over the last few weeks regarding the CAMPO board decision on toll roads. The board majority approved that plan last night. I voted no and I write today to explain the reasons for my vote. I am sending this letter to everyone who contacted me about the issue, whether they were in favor, against or neutral. I also write today because many people could not get into the meeting. It was scheduled in a room far too small to accommodate the amount of people who attended, attendance that should have been easy to anticipate. There is a much larger auditorium nearby where CAMPO has met before. As I said last night at the meeting I think that some toll roads will be necessary for the transportation future of Central Texas. I could not vote for this plan, however, for a number of reasons. First, this is too massive a change to be done with just three months of consideration. It shifts almost every local highway to toll roads. It will affect everyone in this community and everyone who visits. There simply was not enough discussion in this community about an issue of such huge magnitude or enough time for consideration. It would be much better to both consider and implement a change of this magnitude gradually rather than in one sweeping and rushed vote. Additionally, we are talking about $2.2 billion, an incredible sum of public money. There are not apparent or adequate safeguards in place for such a huge amount of funds. With so much money involved the boondoggle potential is enormous. I remain deeply concerned that the finances have not been studied in enough detail. CAMPO members did not have the benefit of financial advisors on this project, except any consulted at their own entities. Another fundamental problem for me is the amount of construction in the Barton Springs Zone. Barton Springs and Barton Creek are treasures that local citizens have sought for decades to protect—making their wishes known in community plans, elections and various other methods for at least 30 years. What passed last night is contrary to those continual expressions of citizen will. The approved plan would include years of construction in the Barton Springs Zone with accompanying pollution during construction and afterward. The incredible scenic beauty would also be further scarred, permanently. Of course there would also be congestion and travel delays accompanying the construction. All of the above can also be said of plans for Loop 360 although that process was slowed somewhat by amendments. Loop 360 is planned to go from four lanes to eight lanes (two toll lanes in each direction and two free lanes in each direction). The toll roads could include flyovers at MoPac and Highway 71, MoPac and Loop 360, and express toll lanes running from William Cannon to downtown. All are in the Edwards Aquifer Recharge Zone, the source of Barton Springs. Additionally the toll lanes to downtown would likely mean taking part of Austin’s Zilker Park, both to get the lanes through the park and to exit off of MoPac onto Barton Springs Road. The City of Austin could end up with no say in it or how this is done. The part of 360 in the Barton Creek Watershed (from its southern terminus with Ben White to roughly the intersection with RM 2244) is not only in the heart of the Edwards Aquifer Recharge Zone, but also adjacent to the most used and (arguably) most beautiful areas of the Barton Creek Greenbelt (which was purchased over a number of years with tax funds from citizens of Austin). That is Twin Falls and Sculpture Falls—where only this weekend hundreds of citizens of all ages, in particular children, were enjoying the swift flowing waters of Barton Creek. I personally am willing to take a few more minutes driving in order to preserve these natural treasures that form a central part of the character of our region and provide enjoyment to people of all ages. In fairness, some amendments were added last night to slow and improve the process regarding 360, although it was still designated as a “toll freeway 4,” which in real life means an eight lane road as described earlier, so the points made above still apply. Also, there were amendments offered that would allow funds to be used to retrofit water quality protections in part of the Barton Springs Zone but those retrofits are not mandatory. None of these, however, were binding enough or specific enough to outweigh my other deep concerns about the overall proposal. One more disturbing aspect of the discussion last night was that representatives of the Central Texas Regional Mobility Authority (CTRMA, the entity proposing and overseeing the toll roads) could not, or would not, step forward to answer questions about whether the CTRMA has the power to condemn land in Zilker Park. That could happen as part of building toll lanes to downtown. Zilker Park has been paid for over the years by City of Austin taxpayers and is regularly enjoyed by thousands of residents (Austin residents and thousands of others). Austin residents and Austin city government could end up with no say in land being taken from the park for toll lanes. Yet RMA officials would not come forward to answer the question. In my view this lack of straight forwardness, and the refusal to answer questions in public, does not bode well for the future of this region or for that agency’s stewardship over such huge amounts of funds. Also, the fact that something of this magnitude was not worked out in advance shows how huge issues can go unaddressed when an important issue is rushed to approval. In summary I did not support the toll road plan voted on last night because I believe that: • it was far too rushed for an issue of such magnitude; • there are not adequate or apparent safeguards in place for the amount of public funds involved; • and the plan threatens to cause environmental degradation and desecration of scenic beauty. Now that the plan has passed I will do everything in my power to prevent those concerns from becoming reality. I hope that citizens will stay involved as well. Sincerely, Daryl Slusher Austin City Council Member, Place 1
How were some of the roads paid for? Just a question here. If they were paid for by the issuance of bonds, then there is still debt service to be made. So really, they aren't paid for. However, the answer to the above question may negate this.
http://www.183northcnb.org/tolls_waste_money.html 183 North Council of Neighborhoods and Businesses Why does TxDOT want to waste your money? Tolls have so much going against them, you have to wonder why TxDOT is pushing them so hard. Toll roads, as a way of collecting money from motorists, have VERY high administration costs, and construction costs are much greater. Administrative costs for a toll road run at about 20%. Yes, 20 cents out of every dollar collected pays for salaries, overtime, benefits, toll booths, collection, devices, etc. In NJ there are 80 cost areas associated with tolls (http://www.users.nac.net/jmp/tollfree/costs.html). By comparison, a fuel tax costs 3-4 cents per dollar for administration, and we are already paying those costs now, so about 100% of any increase would go towards road improvements. Not that I am enthusiastic about an increase in the fuel tax, but by comparison, the money at least could be designated to go only for mobility improvements. Toll roads cost lives. Connecticut ended tolls because so many crashed into barriers. Toll roads increase pollution and decrease gas mileage. TxDOT ends up with increased maintenance costs. Motorists end up with increased maintenance costs due to all that stopping and starting and slowing down and speeding up, and they get to pay for the privilege! Taking away a percentage of Cap Metro's tax percentage is the best idea I have heard so far. They run quite a surplus, and they benefit so few people, on a percentage basis, compared to what that money could do for ALL area residents. So what do tolls do for us, the taxpayers of Central Texas? Ask not what tolls can do for you, ask what tolls can do for your state politician. Getting money for mobility through tolls means your legislator does not have to take the blame for raising taxes. You will pay tolls because your elected officials have lacked and still lack the political will to make hard fiscal choices. You will pay tolls because only political appointees and career bureaucrats will take the blame for picking your pockets, not those facing reelection. How popular would tolls be if they cost those responsible their jobs for imposing them? What if the commissioners imposing these tolls had to face an electorate in the aftermath? What would happen if the legislators who voted for tolls lost their jobs? What if those in TxDOT who campaign for toll roads had their jobs on the line and had to face the voters? None of the people making the decisions on tolls are directly accountable to voters and taxpayers. Or are they?
http://news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=106596 Circle C residents fuming over proposed toll way 5/10/2004 10:42 PM By: James Keith Neighbors living in Circle C and Southwest Austin were out Monday night meeting in full force. They’re angry over a proposal that would turn the William Cannon bridge that’s under construction on south MoPac into a toll way. South Austin “It’s the equivalent of driving out of your driveway and being taxed every morning,” Circle C neighbor Sal Costello said. Costello is angry over a plan to tax drivers on south MoPac. The Central Texas Regional Mobility Authority is proposing a plan that makes a bridge in the area part of a toll way. They said any tolls generated from this bridge would go to pay for long-term maintenance on area roadways. Residents of the area said a toll would double-tax drivers, since construction costs are already covered by taxpayer dollars. “I think they need to go back to the drawing board. I think they need to leave the roads that are already under construction with tax dollars and they need to leave the roads that people are driving on today with our tax dollars – they need to leave them alone -- and figure out a responsible way to do this toll package,” Costello said. “They made the point that their future maintenance costs, but that is basically true for any taxpayer highway and this a 1.5-mile long section in the whole statewide system of highways. That argument didn’t do much for me,” Circle C neighbor Glenn Criswell said. Everyone agrees the state highway funding system is a crisis. The CTRMA says tolls are the only way to dig taxpayers out while securing money for future maintenance expenses. WATCH THE VIDEO Toll roads hearing Circle C residents don't want to be double-taxed for the proposed toll ways. “State of Texas is saying we will make these additional funds available to you on one condition. And that’s that you create an economic engine that will sustain itself forever and that’s what we’re proposing,” CTMRA Executive Director Mike Heiligenstein said. Neighbors in Circle C figure tolls will cost families up to $800 a year. It’s a price they said just isn’t worth it. The idea is just a proposal. CAMPO board members will have the ultimate say as to whether or not this will pass. So, any input given by neighbors could be vital in the future of the plan. If you couldn't make the public hearing, there's another one on Tuesday night. It starts at 6:45 p.m. at Zaragoza Recreation Center at 2608 Gonzales Street in East Austin. The public is invited to attend. From what I understand, the regional TxDOT Engineer admitted that this overpass had already been paid for. And certainly large sums of tax dollars have already gone into the construction of the existing roads (whether to build the roads outright or to service the debt) that will be converted to tolls or have tolls added.
Cohen, you saw from my post in the other thread how I feel about it. I was venting, obviously, but the way this whole thing was shoved through just reeks. Just looking at the plan, with it's bits of toll projects added to our freeway system, in no coherent manner, except to produce revenue, and unlike any toll/highway plan I've ever seen. The little revenue producing overpass project that has those of us in SW Austin so incensed is just the most blatant. Slusher's excellent letter says everything far better than I could. I just want to mention that I will support a recall effort for any elected official, including Mayor Wynn, who openly supported the plan. And I think everyone should remember Rick Perry's complicity in all this. He has been pushing toll projects throughout the state, appointing people who would push them through, and has done everything possible to prevent adequate funding for our highway system in Texas, which has been the envy of much of the world for decades. Frankly, Perry is a puzzle to me. He has been so irrational about so many things since he became governor that I can only assume he either has a hidden agenda that makes his actions justified, in his mind, or he's just that stupid. I have a friend who's been involved in Circle C affairs for years, and he really thought they would drop the overpass part of the plan. He's not against toll roads, and I'm not either, when they make sense, and he fully expected that because it was already funded and so far along in construction, that it would be dropped. Anything else was just not credible. Well, we saw how that played out. I'll check back again... great topic! And so unnecessary.
Cohen why do you hate jobs for toll collectors? Maybe Austin needs a heavy rail system. Sorry but you can't stop people from moving to Austin. When Ian McHarg wrote the environmental studies that have guided Austin's development gudelines in the early 70's there were maybe 100,000 permanent residents. The plan assumed the local enviroment was more important than economic development but that was about the beginning of the explosion of the student population and way before the technology boom. The fact is people go where the money is. And where you have an influx of people you have to provide the infrastructure to serve them. Name me any affluent city where they have controlled the population or impact. Hell, Phoenix is in a desert and it is now the 5th most populous city in the United States. Los Angeles imports water from 500 miles away. I know it's sad to see Austin deteriorate but we live in a capitalist system where good governance is trumped by greed. Austin is just a victim of it's own sucess. As for toll versus non-toll: It's another axiom the governments will spend all monies collected and they will earmark all monies projected. Austin missed it's chance to build adequate "free" ways by it's idealistic denial in the face of the inevitable. Houston did somewhat by spending a large percentage of it's share rebuilding the Gulf Freeway 3 times over. Now, the people will not stand for much more taxation! But it seems they will allow user fees (and lottery tickets) which are tantamount to the same thing but hopefully some other guy will pay'em. Toll roads are a politically palateble solution to the perceived transportation needs. Now I suppose your tact of limiting growth by imposing gridlock is one way of going about it. People may find Austin so undesirable they will take their prosperity elsewhere, but I doubt it. More than likely the pissed off commuters will just elect someone else and pave over your house. As a former Landscape Arcitect, Zero Population Growth Advocate and Hippie I wish you well. Maybe your idealism can influence the path of the avalanche.
Interesting Gene, but I'm not against toll roads. I'm against this plan. An inequitable, patchwork, poorly researched, rapidly jammed down our throat plan that raises serious questions about our politicians' motivations.
Austin is a classic case of a little town that got way too big too fast. Nobody wanted to admit that there were SERIOUS transportation problems and no one wanted to address the problems because it meant pouring concrete and making Austin ugly...like Houston. When I lived there, I always got the sense that people were just a little out of touch with reality. I never met so many ethical vegetarians who wore leather bowling shoes in my life.
too funny But honestly the Tolls in houston SUCK too the only place where the tolls GO UP after the road is paid off I notice the lights along westpark are NO LONGER in sync I wonder why Rocket RIver
Damn good post, Jeff. Your first paragraph is right on the money. I lived in Austin from 79-83, and the difference between the Austin of then vs. the Austin of now is like night and day.
Could this be why? From page 10, 'Toll Road Finance 101' by TxDOT: Limiting the Alternatives (Supply) • Free alternatives mean lower revenues • Avoid Frontage Roads or Use Discontinuous Frontage Roads • Don’t Overbuild • Limit Competing Facilities • Consider legal and mobility issues BTW, the tolls continue to go up EVERYWHERE. In New York, they were promised that the toll booths would disappear after the construction costs were paid off. Right.
Cohen, I have been pissed off about this since it was even proposed. I can not believe that they are going to put a TOLL on existing roads? Ridiculous. Personally, I think it is all a plan to get a mass transit system in place ala Light rail. As for Austin growing too fast.....man, the traffic here is NOWHERE near as bad as the Katy Freeway.... In rush hour traffic it takes me 15 minutes to get down town from Circle C, and that is not bad. In Houston, the same distance would have taken more than an hour. The question is, what can we do to overturn this? Lawsuit? DD
Paul Moller needs to hurry up and bring his flying car to market. I hate toll roads. Makes me want to dump a bunch of tea into the harbor. -- droxford
This is an outrage! I take Parmer from Mopac to I-35 every morning. Sucks even worst for Circle C residents, since it's a 1.5 mile stretch of toll every time they leave the neighborhood.
As part of Rick Perry's election effort a few years ago he proposed a high-speed rail triangle between Austin/San Antonio, Dallas, and Houston. I'm pretty sure it disappeared after he got elected, but it is supposedly a "long-term" goal.
