1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Tolkien is turning in his grave

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by tinman, Sep 5, 2022.

?

What would Tolkien watch today?

  1. House is the Dragon cause it’s good

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. Rings of Power because it has fake hobbits that he never created

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. tinman

    tinman 999999999
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    104,423
    Likes Received:
    47,323
    This book
    The Rings of power wasn’t written by Tolkien
    Hell even R Kelly didn’t write this

    @Jontro
    @Os Trigonum
     
    Sweet Lou 4 2 likes this.
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,206
    Likes Received:
    20,352
    On the flip side you have people who can't watch it because there is a black dwarf woman which ruins the show.

    Which side is being ridiculous here? The showrunners for putting in a black female dwarf, or all the people crying about it on the internet?

    Like who the F cares?
     
    JeeberD and arno_ed like this.
  3. Jontro

    Jontro Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    36,378
    Likes Received:
    25,559
    tolkien would be in awe of she-hulk. dat sass, dat girl power, dat ass.
     
    tinman and Salvy like this.
  4. hitman1900

    hitman1900 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,451
    Likes Received:
    692
    Fake Hobbits? Wait a minute...are there real Hobbits out there? Lol.

    Rings of power is the better show regardless.
     
  5. Salvy

    Salvy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    24,728
    Likes Received:
    36,266
    It has nothing to do with race, how many movies or shows don't have a black character? Almost none.... Its been like this a while now. Take any of the top movies or shows and you will find black characters. Black characters don't hinder or cripple good movies nor shows. Why? Because no one cares. People aren't hating it because of racism. People are hating the woke movement branching out and infecting everything even things that weren't written in the way new age woke producers and writers want to portray it. Peter Jackson did an incredible job with the trilogy. Leave it at that.... There is nothing they can improve upon the ageless books and movie trilogy. There is nothing to add... Its a cash grab...
     
    Jontro likes this.
  6. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    101,174
    Likes Received:
    103,691
    Tinman, Musk and his buddies heard the name "Saruman the White" and just assumed he was the hero of the stories.
     
  7. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,954
    Likes Received:
    28,049
    If you don't like it, vote with your eyeballs.

    If a crying baby isn't annoying enough, then it's sitting next to one inside a theatre who is hating every moment it.

    In the olden days, when people didn't like **** on TV, such as Ellen coming out as gay, they stopped watching and the show was canceled within a year.

    Who would've thought that would've worked as opposed to airing your displeasure online simultaneously giving the show attention while you looked like an entitled cunt with too much time on your hands?
     
    #27 Invisible Fan, Sep 8, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2022
  8. tinman

    tinman 999999999
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    104,423
    Likes Received:
    47,323
    There’s no hobbits in that show because the hobbits don’t show up til the 3rd age of middle earth
    The whack writers made up these midgets called them ‘harfoots’
    Because they have to make this whole thing up
    Cause Tolkien didn’t write this breh
    @Sweet Lou 4 2
     
  9. tinman

    tinman 999999999
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    104,423
    Likes Received:
    47,323
    The show is getting bad reviews
    Also the main character was gracefully played by Cate Blanchate in the real Lord of the Rings as a powerful magically being
    Now this character in Amazon is Conan the Barbarián
    This might be a movie about the D&D here
     
  10. tinman

    tinman 999999999
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    104,423
    Likes Received:
    47,323
    This outrage is not about the random black humans playing elves or dwarfs
    It’s that the whole thing is fake and made up not by the author
    Let me try to explain this
    @Os Trigonum @Salvy @Jontro

    Let’s say they made a Rockets championship movie
    They didn’t research any of this

    so they got a white trans woman to play Hakeem
    And then they got LeBron James to play Kobe Bryant and put Kobe on that championship team

    and we played Knicks in the finals outdoors in Rutger park
    And they got Yao Ming to play Patrick Ewing
    @J.R.
    @Sweet Lou 4 2
    And Jeremy Lin was the president of the world and his wife was RuPaul

    this is pretty much what they did to Tolkien
    Elon is just pointing out the obvious

    it’s a money grab about people who never cared about the Tolkien lore or read the books
    @AroundTheWorld
     
    Jontro and J.R. like this.
  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    Isn't Hakeem a real human that actually exists?
     
    Rocket River likes this.
  12. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    101,174
    Likes Received:
    103,691
     
    FrontRunner and LondonCalling like this.
  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,206
    Likes Received:
    20,352
    If no one cares why are so many people complaining about the race of characters? Like who gives a flying F.

    As for cash grabs, I hate to tell you this, but the entertainment industry as a whole is one big effing cash grab.

    Bezos and Musk have been having their little dick comparison contest for years. The two richest men in the world have nothing better to do but go on twitter and mock the other guy. No wonder aliens flying around don't want to say hi.
     
    #33 Sweet Lou 4 2, Sep 8, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2022
  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,169
    Likes Received:
    48,341
    I already went over this in the Hangout thread on the show.

    Tolkein did have humans of different races in the books but also had attitudes that would be considered racist by todays standards. As such almost all of the good guys in his writings have white features while many of the bad guys have Asian or Black features.

    That didn’t stop me from being a fan of Tolkien but understanding the background and context that he was writing.

    I don’t think JRR Tolkein would approve of the casting of Rings of Power and agree with the OP that he probably would be turning in his grave. Just to note a lot of Disney products Walt probably wouldn’t approve of given that he also had racist and antisemitic views.

    The Rings of Power is art and it’s only loosely based on Tolkein. There’s nothing illegal or unethical about changing the casting but my own view is they just changing the genders and race to make it palatable for current audiences is lazy. If you’re going to take the Tolkien mantle then fealty to the original should be important even if it doesn’t fit with current mores. At the minimum instead of just changing things and just pretending that everything is fine they could have written in Easterlings and Southron characters. Instead they just took the lazy route of recasting without much thought.

    Just it address another pet peeve. Yes Elves Dwarves and Hobbits don’t exist. So yes they could be black yellow or green. The problem with that is if you just use the excuse that it’s all fantasy so you could change them is that you’re still basing it on Tolkein. If they started having the Elves using cell phones to call Valinor or the Dwarves using jackhammers and back hoes I doubt any of the fandom would accept that as that wouldn’t be Medieval Fantasy. It seems like if you want the Tolkein mantle you should take all of it even if some of it doesn’t fit current mores.

    All that said I’m still watching the show and so far think it is good. It is a very valid point that this isn’t what JRR Tolkein would’ve approved of.
     
  15. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2000
    Messages:
    7,110
    Likes Received:
    2,457
    Galadriel was the granddaughter of both King Olwe and King Finwe. Her hair color was inherited from her Father, Finfarin and was unique amongst elves who actually tended to have dark hair. Her hair was also said to be touched by the light of the two trees making it one of the most treasured things on earth (which is why its a big deal when she gives Gimli three of her hairs after she denied Feanor the gift of her hair).

    She was from the mightiest stock and probably only second to Feanor in might and majesty. While she learned "magic" from the Valar, she also was trained in sword and hunting by Orome himself (the "angel" of hunting evil, Oromë is described as a mighty lord and a great huntsman, as he would often train his folk and beasts in pursuit of evil creatures. He loved the lands of Middle-earth and was initially unwilling to leave it. He contrasts with the Vala Tulkas in demeanor; whereas Tulkas laughs in sports, Oromë is said to be dreadful in anger).

    No elf uses magic in fighting. Feanor, Finrod, and all the mightiest elves who ever lived, and who were closest to creation all used sword and armor. Even Meklor (Morgoth) and Manwe, near Gods on earth used swords and warhammers. Even later in the third age when she took down Dol Guldor, she threw down the fortress only AFTER the battle was complete. It was a spell the was sung and only a few were powerful enough to do it on Middle Earth. It probably took her thousands of years to learn it and probably was only able to do it with the help of the Elven ring she wore (and didn't have in Rings of Power in the Second Age).

    She crossed the Helcaraxe for 20 years. She led armies. She was most likely a warrior. She was even described as a warrior: "She was called Nerwen 'Man-maiden' because of her strength, and stature, and her courage."

    What you're seeing in Rings of Power is actually probably pretty close to what Galadriel was before the third age. When Galadriel met Frodo in the garden in Lothlorien, she is THOUSANDS of years older, wiser, and more powerful in magic. She also has the elven ring Nenya at that point and could wield it while the One Ring was lost to Sauron.

    So there is a lot to be annoyed at in Rings of Power, the depiction of Galadriel as a doughty warrior is most likely not one of them.
     
  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,169
    Likes Received:
    48,341
    As a Nerd I agree with this. By the time of the LOTR she was one of the most powerful beings in Middle Earth. She was described already in the First age as being strong willed and independent minded.

    Elf magic is never clearly defined by Tolkein and even Galadriel in LOTR says that then Elves themselves don’t understand what other people think of by “magic”. The powers that Galadriel have seem to be more about strength of will and the ability to inspire others. The Elf magic seems to be more of a technology that is misunderstood by others.
     
    Supermac34 likes this.
  17. Salvy

    Salvy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    24,728
    Likes Received:
    36,266
    When you take a big and old franchise like LOTR or Star Wars you are going to have fans of that franchise. People that loved it so much that they dove straight into the lore. The lore of these stories are sometimes so in depth as to even the skin color of a certain tribe or race. Especially LOTR which was a book first. A very beloved best selling and most popular books of all time. The fan base of these franchises are massive. They're expectations are not going to be met with a woke producer and writer using the name and lore of a beloved franchise to push political agendas all while freely swapping race, gender, sexuality and or inserting a certain race, gender, sexuality to meet woke standards.

    They have read the books, played the games and watched the movies. If something new is coming out they are going to expect something that looks like LOTR.... From the way characters act, to the way they look. From the way things work in this world to the way they don't. If you cheat them in any way people will be pissed.

    If Amazon made their own damn phantasy series and did not attach LOTR's to it no one would care. I'm sure the show can stand on its own anyways. Amazon wouldn't do that thou, attaching LOTR's to the series now means they don't have to work as hard making good content but reaping the massive attention from fans world wide all while letting the producers and writers attach woke culture to it and then calling the fan base you pandered to in the first place racists for not liking the product...

    If they want to make woke shows there is no problem with it, just don't attach a big franchise's name to it and sell it as your own. Same thing happened with Resident Evil on Netflix.... Now its canceled...
     
    StupidMoniker and JumpMan like this.
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,886
    Likes Received:
    41,412
    if you're a late middle aged spinster bro of a certain type, I can see why there being black hobbits is basically like an affront to your own "children" and the type of thing you'd take to the internet about.

    @tinman
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,206
    Likes Received:
    20,352
    So if they changed the skin color of the dragon in the hobbit that would ruin it for you? It just seems such a superficial and inconsequential thing to get worked up about.

    If skin color is so important to people, then the purists can watch the Russian TV version
     
  20. tinman

    tinman 999999999
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    104,423
    Likes Received:
    47,323
    I'm sure like China, they aren't about copyrights.
    At least Bezos paid money for the rights, he's an honorable man, unlike these lazy non contributing members here who are cheap as dirt
    @Os Trigonum
    [​IMG]
     
    Sweet Lou 4 2 likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now