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To Whistle Blow or not to blow, that is the question

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by heypartner, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    So, for the first time in my life I might need to blow the whistle.

    Before I begin the story, I've already told the person doing the problem, his boss, and my boss. My boss is the 2nd in command.

    Problem is, my company just completed a merger. So this is about protecting the second company.

    I am a software developer. The whistle blowing isn't about saying our company is bad; it is about protecting the intellectual property of the company.

    Due to the merger, things are in disarray, and I was sent to City X last week (during all the nba trade deadline fun, sigh, lol) to report back to my boss what that office was doing.

    Long story short (assuming it is not too long already), I discovered a new 3 month old programmer trying to crack (not hack) our mothership application database. Understand the difference between cracking and hacking....bad vs improvement.

    The second application next to the mothership is mine, which is a SaaS app, so during the merging the investors did a 3 week security check of the app; we passed. The mothership app is a desktop app, and the primary intellectual property of the company is a database sold with it...a dongle is required to run the app.

    Since there is a dongle, I never and no one ever thought to actually check the security of the db supplied with it. It wasn't my app. Turns out this new employee exposed a very simple hole, and he and his boss are trying to use it to suck the data out for product #3. Honestly, they don't view it as malicious, just an opportunity to move forward.

    I immediately said, holy crap we need to report this. This database is worth $100m and the whole reason we are a company and why a Fortune 50 just gave us $50m to expand.

    I told that brand new programmer that and he said, "well, my boss doesn't think it is that much of an issue."

    I give my boss one week, to deal with this. Then should I go higher?

    Worst case, this new employee is this weekend passing the database to his friends to crack the one table that I pretended I couldn't crack. And then our data is in the wild.
     
    #1 heypartner, Feb 26, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  2. pradaxpimp

    pradaxpimp Contributing Member

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    I would.

    I imagine there is a lot of money on the line.
     
  3. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    Maybe I misread, but this seems kind of important and mentioned nowhere else. Just kind of slipped in at the end.

    Did you somehow certify that it was uncrackable or something? The whole thing was a little vague (for obvious reasons) so if I missed it, I apologize. Do you have some perceived personal liability if the dude cracks it?
     
  4. FrancisFan

    FrancisFan Contributing Member

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    Is the "database" centrally hosted or are there multiple instances hosted in house at client locations? What types of data is exposed? Is your product under any regulations / compliances?

    What do you mean "crack" a table? Are the friends company employees?
     
  5. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    This db has 100+ tables. He proved all of them were readable except one. And he asked me to help him decode it, which i could do. but i didn't. And i played dumb.

    so to answer...he exposed the db except for one table, where I said , "uh, I am not good enough to do this for you" so now I'm worried he is going to ask a friend.
     
    #5 heypartner, Feb 27, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  6. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    the database is part of a desktop app sell, with a dongle per license. this is not a web app. there are 1000s out there. I thought I said that.

    I can't really say much more.

    I was advised to make notes of this. I was advised to use a public forum but say no specifics.

    thank you cfnet. you are my notes.
     
  7. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    yeah, I think my boss is great, and the merger is. i'm just not so sure anyone understands what someone like MS and google and SAP could do with this data. I know what they would do.
     
  8. FrancisFan

    FrancisFan Contributing Member

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    I wasn't sure if the desktop app connected back to a centrally hosted database. The reason I asked was to define security parameters and boundaries. Since this is a locally installed application with a local database, it sounds like its an issue that any customer could also take advantage of. So at the least, I'm assuming that bugfix (or whatever term you use) would be registered.

    From you description I don't see malicious intent. Without the exact details its hard to determine this; example : is this as simple as viewing tables in MSSQL/MYSQL/10G or breaking a proprietary DB platform.

    The first thing I do is look at the database structure of an enterprise application. The company that I work for doesn't lock users out application databases, neither does Microsoft with enterprise applications, neither does SAP, neither does Oracle/PeopleSoft (at least for the apps I play with).
     
  9. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    correct. no malicious intent, aside from one part of the company to steal data from another to the point employees know that is possible. and then the world does.

    just complete lack of security control.
     
  10. zoids

    zoids Member

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    I think it really depends on how brave you are.

    When a merger happens, you should know what comes next. Laid off.

    To me what they are doing is to protect their positions while making sure it's you guys who will get the boot when the management says there is overlapping and stuffs like that.

    I don't think they are trying to really understand your product, just trying to prove your product is not secure enough to be published to the market since they already have something similar in the pipeline.

    The thing is, if you blow the whistle, will you get the support... it happens that many people are so dumb and short sighted to NOT see **** coming at them until too late or they actually got some kind of deals secured behind everyone's back so they never cared and actually will kill the whistle blower if there is one pop up.

    I am regret to say you are in a very ****ty situation... my advice would be take your chance no matter what you end up decide to do, make sure protect yourself first. If I were you I would look for another job immediately (be one step ahead of them either way), because your owner/higher ups probably already god paid handsomely for the merger and ready to bring down the knife to you guys anyways. No one really cares about company to be honest these days... I've seen my fair share of **** in my own company but because it involves ppl in quite high up I ended up just swallow it because I observed more and found out the whole circle of gangs are much more than I can handle. I also lost trust to HR in the way. The anonymous reporting system shouldn't require my employee number too. Thank god I no longer work in that dept.

    Let's hope I am totally wrong.
     
  11. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Read for truth. but I'm not so negative as you.
     
  12. University Blue

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    There's no ethics hotline? If you did not already confront / discuss this with someone, you could have reported it anonymously.
     
  13. University Blue

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    ps Based on my observations, HR will protect the interests of the person / entity that earns the most money. (Makes sense if the company has to settle down the road.)
     
  14. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    I think I would very privately consult your company's legal council and let them do any further whistle blowing. Not only will they understand more of the legal relationship of the merger, they can go directly to the top executives if warranted, and you keep a degree of anonymity.


    " very privately" = no email, no recorded messages.
     
  15. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    It looks your software has security holes. If you expose that why would they keep the original team around if the new guys are better?
     
  16. IBTL

    IBTL Member
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    so then you should alert whoever necessary that there is a lack of security and are 'just doing your job'

    It sounds like you want to blow so you need to make sure you are looking at the whole picture in terms of evidence and what can and can't be proved later. Keep good notes as you will forget. I was just involved in a court case and I can tell you 2 years later they are looking at facts and evidence only. Dates and timelines along with hearsay but mainly just the facts ma'am.

    So if you expose this weakness the guy that can steal is your boss? I understand there is a merger but ultimately you are the guy banging on the code and reporting issues as they arises. Isn't it due diligence to report?

    If you report how is it going to affect overall merger and corporate standing negatively? Why would you be fired?

    Isn't it a good thing to know there is an open ended-ness that needs to be closed to all.. not just this dude?

    you can talk about this more without being so vague. This is almost as confusing all the cfnet game.
     
  17. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    correct. it's not my software...it is the second company. this is political. I have reported the weakness. just not sure how far my report will go. But I will report it further, despite politics. I just want to protect the new merger's intellectual property.

    I hate this. Me reporting a weakness in security should be much simpler.

    Again, I was advised to make public notes of this. thx cfnet.
     
  18. krnxsnoopy

    krnxsnoopy Contributing Member

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    I recommend consulting Julian Assange regarding this matter. He will know what to do.
     
  19. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Y'all don't have trouble tickets you can file with respect to your company's software? If we found any security problem in our software we would immediately file a problem report and label it critical. It then gets reviewed by the responsible manager and assigned to a specific programmer to investigate/resolve. It has exposure throughout the entire company and is there for everyone to see.
     
  20. Tb-Cain

    Tb-Cain Member

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    I'm not entirely clear on the scenario, but it seems to me that the other programmer should not have access to the database. So, the first issue to resolve is whether or not he should. If he shouldn't, then his access should be revoked.

    If he his permitted access to the application, then I don't see an issue with his trying to access the data within.

    Why does he have access to production data worth $100M in the first place? If there was some legitimate reason to be looking at the application, surely this could have been done with a development/test database that has been scrubbed.

    :confused:
     

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