1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

To extend KPJ or not?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Lachard Binkley, Jul 29, 2022.

  1. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,840
    Likes Received:
    5,521
    my bad - the tweet I got that from must have been wrong. I had read RJ was signed to $24mil which is where I expect the MLE to sit in new CBA. Yeah, $35 is NOT new MLE money. Knicks have done it again...
     
  2. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    10,347
    Likes Received:
    13,301
    Yeah apparently only cult members think KPj can play or improve.
    Because resorting to name calling and labels always means you are winning the debate.

    per Shams: Jazz plan on inking Sexton to 4 yrs / $72 mil ( $18 mil on average ).

    Sexton 6'1" 23 years old:
    21/22: 16.0 pts / 3.3 rebs / 2.1 Ast / 24.4 (3P%) / 11.9 (Ast%)

    Porter Jr 6'5" 22 years old:
    21/22: 15.6 pts / 4.4 rebs / 6.2 Ast / 37.5 (3P%) / 30.7 (Ast%)

    Every NBA player can improve.....except if your name is Kevin Porter jr
     
    D-rock, Verbal Christ and FLAGRANT1 like this.
  3. AlperenSengun

    AlperenSengun Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2021
    Messages:
    3,940
    Likes Received:
    7,314
    Those Sexton stats are from 11 games from last year. He was injured.

    His previous 3 seasons were 16.7, 20.8, 24.3 per game with 40, 38, 37% 3pt shooting. I don't think it supports your position at all.
     
    D-rock, apollo33, Corrosion and 4 others like this.
  4. i3artow i3aller

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    20,163
    Likes Received:
    37,882
    :confused::rolleyes:

    Sexton only played 11 games due to injuries.

    His career averages are 20 ppg 3 reb 3.3 ast on 45.8 fg% 37.8 3fg% 82.7 ft%

    vs

    KPJ career averages of 13.7 ppg 3.9 reb 4.7 ast on 42.4 fg% 35.2 3fg% 68.6 ft%
     
    #1704 i3artow i3aller, Sep 1, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2022
  5. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    10,347
    Likes Received:
    13,301
    Yes and Porter first 18 games of 21/22 were complete garbage with Theis starting and no space.

    So do I get to throw those out...or only you can cherry pick?

    Porter had more points in 20/21 and higher Ast% in 20/21. Yes only 26 games.

    Point is Porter hasn't spent much time at PG but yet some have him capped
    for some strange reason?
     
    #1705 ApacheWarrior, Sep 1, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2022
    D-rock and Verbal Christ like this.
  6. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    52,199
    Likes Received:
    143,595
    LOL

    that is what happens when all somebody knows how to do is copy and paste bball ref
     
    King1 and i3artow i3aller like this.
  7. King1

    King1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    13,275
    Likes Received:
    8,719
    We have to look at red rowdy dumb stuff
    We still are getting along. As I said we want the same thing in terms of Houstons success
     
  8. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    10,347
    Likes Received:
    13,301
    Point Guards don't need to pass?

    Dont need to have a good Ast% ?

    Porter Jr:........................................................................Sexton
    18/19:..............................................................15.3 (Ast%) [ PG....82 games ]
    19/20: 13.9 (Ast%) [ SF....50 games ]............15.1 (Ast%) [ PG....65 games ]
    20/21: 31.2 (Ast%) [ SG....26 games ] ..........22.6 (Ast%) [ SG....60 games ]
    21/22: 30.7 (Ast%) [ PG....61 games ]...........11.9 (Ast%) [ SG....11 games ]

    Strange when I mention Porter Jr just started playing a new position....I have
    clowns telling me Nooooooo Porter has been in the league for 3 years!!!!!!!!!!!

    So those few games Porter played in 20/21 count but Sexton 11 games in 21/22 don't?
    Yeah THERE IS NO BIAS GOING ON.

    In 20/21 Porter played 26 games but Wall played in 10 of those
    games making Porter the SG. So in actuality Porter played PG
    in only 16 games in 20/21. Add the 61 games last year and
    Porter has played a grand total of 77 games as a Point Guard.
    Sexton played Point Guard in 82 games in 18/19 alone.

    As Sexton improved over time so will Porter. Why is there a
    phony ceiling placed on Porter? Just plain Bias.

    @King1 doesn't like Porter mainly because of incidents. I can't argue that.
    But I will argue the stats all day and why they were tainted:
    From *Theis and lack of spacing
    *Playing better without Wood (cramping his game)
    *Wall selfishness
    *Silas playing easy to defend "Vanilla Offense" (self admitted)
    *Silas playing easy to score on "Vanilla Defense" (self admitted....always inbounding
    and going up against a set half court defense)
    *Opponents best wing defender on him
    *2nd and 3rd tier defenders sitting in the lane ready after Porter gets by BEST DEFENDER.
    *Piss poor 3-point shooters for the past two years

    Porter's job is now to drive and kick.....it's not his job to also make the
    baskets for all those receiving the pass. Yeah I'm looking at you Sengun,
    Tate, Kenyon, Theis.
     
    #1708 ApacheWarrior, Sep 1, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2022
    Verbal Christ likes this.
  9. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2008
    Messages:
    11,630
    Likes Received:
    4,729
    Doesn't this just reinforce the fact that the Rockets shouldn't commit to KPJ immediately?

    I feel like there are different topics going on. I don't think the argument is whether KPJ should stay on this team, or that he should be cut. It's that the Rockets shouldn't commit big money to him until after next season. If the Rockets were to commit to KPJ now, it would likely need to be in the 10 range where their cap flexibility isn't affected and the deal is low risk.
     
  10. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    10,347
    Likes Received:
    13,301
    For a team tanking and a lot of players under 2 years of experience
    there is a lot of blame to go around. Seems like just Porter gets
    thrown under the bus.

    If we (Rockets/fans) don't like or trust Porter to be incident free.....
    Why waste time playing him. Let's train Christopher to do the
    same. JC can spend 70 games or so at learning starting PG.

    Porter is going to do too good and we win more games under
    the direction of Porter at PG than Christopher. We let Tari and
    Jabari have the Wood minutes as inexperienced as they are.

    Do to Porter as they did to Wood. Trade him.

    I said trade Westbrook to New York for Bobby Portis
    and all those non guaranteed contracts....instead Stone
    traded for the terrible worthless John Wall that Tilman had
    to eat the final two years of about $90 million.

    And then Stone did what I suggested with Wood.
    Traded him for smaller crappy deals in Burke,
    Boban, Chriss, Sterling. And the rights to TyTy.

    Great score. Let's just trade Porter now if he's so bad.
    Get back a ham sandwich. We spent less than that to get him.
     
  11. King1

    King1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    13,275
    Likes Received:
    8,719
    We have to make sure he'd be around to toss him under the bus ;)
     
  12. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    10,347
    Likes Received:
    13,301
    Well you can throw these guys under the bus as well:

    Wood
    1st nine games: 38.0% (3P%)
    Next eight games: 19.4% (3P%) forced Theis out
    Last 50 games: 41.6% (3P%)

    Sengun
    1st twenty games: 40.9% (3P%)
    Last Fifty-two games: 21.1% (3P%). Pure dog ****

    Jalen Green
    1st eighteen games: 27.8% (3P%) got hurt (HS) and came back later.
    Last Forty-nine games: 36.4% (3P%)

    Tate
    1st Sixty-three games: 29.8% (3P%)
    Last Fifteen games: 38.2% (3P%)

    So people can't understand why I would throw out the first 20 games
    of the season as garbage........others players lousy play helped bring down
    Porters stats. Yet they want to throw out Sexton 11 crappy games.

    and

    How their improved play from 3 correlates to better stats by the
    driver of the car. Duh. An infant could see this. Why guard anyone
    from 3.......just pack the paint like they did in the first 20 game. Duh.
     
    Xerobull likes this.
  13. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2008
    Messages:
    11,630
    Likes Received:
    4,729
    Both KPJ and Wood get more criticism basically because of two main reasons:
    1. They have the key to the team's offense. Both Wood and KPJ get the most touches on this team.
    2. Both Wood and KPJ exhibited clear attitude and personality issues, which is not an isolated incident but an extension of previous incidents. We need to remember Cleveland traded three 2nd round picks and 1 protected 2nd round pick to acquire KPJ at the 30th spot, and the 30th spot is considered lower value than early 2nd round picks due to the contract differences (whereas the talent gap is minimal). Cleveland practically waiving him after his rookie season speaks volumes.
    This is not to say KPJ's issues can't be improved, but the Rockets should not risk their cap flexibility on KPJ unless they are certain on him. Frankly speaking, there is a legitimate chance that very few teams out there would even risk giving him a contract, especially when the Miles Bridges incident is still fresh in everyone's minds.
     
    Corrosion and ApacheWarrior like this.
  14. King1

    King1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    13,275
    Likes Received:
    8,719
    Not a Wood fan whatsoever. We were extremely lucky to get a first for him. On Green and Sengun neither of them literally quit at halftime.
     
  15. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    10,347
    Likes Received:
    13,301
    1st) everything the Cavs have touched has turned to *mud. Why would
    you draft 6'1"" and Garland and 6'1"Sexton and play together and expect
    good things? I knew the Cavs were using Porter wrong, KPj knew that
    was a screwed up mess.

    I wouldn't say the Cavs letting him go because he was calling them racist
    speaks volumes. They took his locker away and put his near the toilets.
    I would be upset as well. What next.....make me sit in the back of the bus?
    Do the laundry? Clean the toilets?

    2nd) I posted how Porters stats were not bad for the game in question:
    01/01/22 vs Den: KPj: 15:46 mins....3/5 FG's...2/4 (3's)...3 Ast...1 Blk...1 TOV...8 pts.

    So were you in the locker room?

    How do you know John Lucas was not venting and mixed Porter
    in the mix (previous game Porter played bad)? Sometimes
    miscommunication by those in authority can lead to confrontation.
    A guy like Porter needs to be explained why you are yelling at him.
    You just can't go yelling at him without telling him it's because
    of effort the previous game.

    Now if you have a link to an article where players or Lucas himself
    states Porter showed lack of effort in that exact game....I would
    like to see it.

    Until then it's all assumption that Porter was at fault. Sometimes us
    old guys get caught up in the heat of the moment too.....and don't
    communicate as well as we should.


    *with exception of Jarrett Allen and Mobley.

    I can link you article after article of Cavs players saying Sexton is garbage that has
    low basketball i.q. and doesn't pass the ball to others. Or just Google is Sexton liked
    by Cavs players? I'll get you started:
    https://bleacherreport.com/articles...rated-with-collin-sexton-opponents-taunt-cavs

    Here is another for your viewing pleasure
    https://www.news-herald.com/2021/10...eammates-dont-like-collin-sexton-jeff-schudel
     
    #1715 ApacheWarrior, Sep 1, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2022
  16. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    10,347
    Likes Received:
    13,301
    He paid the fine and lost a paycheck for missing a game.

    I'm sorry did it knock us out of contention? Someone forgot
    to tell Stone, Tilman and John Wall who sat out the season
    while getting paid $41 million
     
    D-rock likes this.
  17. King1

    King1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    13,275
    Likes Received:
    8,719
    Wall was asked to sit out. He didn't quit at halftime
     
    REEKO_HTOWN, clutchdabear and theDude like this.
  18. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    10,347
    Likes Received:
    13,301
    We wouldn't have our first championship without Vernon Maxwell
    who waked off the team before the playoffs the next yr because Drexler
    was a threat at SG.

    In an interview with Mad Max they asked him about that.
    Said it was the biggest mistake of his life. You claim people
    don't learn from their mistakes? Can't change?

    I know from working with troubled kids that they can. Porter lost
    his dad at a young age and I can almost bet that his mom let him get
    away with murder. Now it's hard for him to be yelled at. But if John
    Lucas can forgive him and vice versa.....your opinion don't matter.

    Good luck with your holier than Thou beliefs.
     
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,181
    Likes Received:
    20,334
    Best move for both the Rockets and KPJ is to let him play more this year and demonstrate consistency which will

    A) increase his leverage for a bigger payday
    B) Assure the Rockets he is worth investing in

    It's honestly win win. Stone has shown he is very savvy and at the same time builds great relationships. I have no doubt that the contract with KPJ will be fair and bakes in some of his downside risks. And I don't think people should worry about KPJ costing on a contract, he's just not that kind of player - far too emotionally involved.

    The biggest ? around KPJ is what happens if coaching decides he should not be a starting pg. That's the biggest risk in my opinion.
     
  20. King1

    King1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    13,275
    Likes Received:
    8,719
    I have never said that it's not possible that he changes. His behavior patterns are what they are. He's done it his entire career.

    I coach AAU in my spare time do I also have experience with troubled youth. You're just making excuses for him because you're a fan.
     

Share This Page