https://open.spotify.com/episode/1FKulvhyCUOfVLjMOgsLjP?si=UWep62KVSaS8iASrnlRg-w Latest Hollinger and Duncan podcast Just two dudes opinions, but there was a mailbag question asking which young core do they feel the best about as of now and when discussing the Rockets young core they had some thoughts on KPJ. The young core questions starts around the 23:00 minute mark for anyone who wants to actually listen to their whole response in complete context. All paraphrasing but when these two discussed the Rockets young and upcoming core the first 3 names they mentioned were Green, Smith and Sengun. Neither of the hosts felt too strongly about committing to KPJ as a part of our future. They both felt like the most likely outcome for him is a 6th man here or somewhere else. They then talked about the contract situation and said if he’s looking for 20+ million a year they just said no way. Both seemed to think a Jordan Clarkson level deal is what they would feel comfortable giving him. 4 years ~ 51 million. Which is roughly what 538 is projecting he is worth per year going forward.
Tate got overpaid. It’s likely for the things he does off the court (locker room, team meetings, practice, etc.) If the coach and GM value your contributions, that’s what happens. And Tate has been better than replacement level both years, KPJ has not. That’s not to say he won’t be, but there is still some uncertainty there. With Tate, they know exactly what they are getting from him on and off the court (and he’s pretty much peaked with his on court abilities). I’m sure they valued the steadiness.
No doubt, I'm trying to save the Rockets possibly $10 mil by having Porter sign at $15-$18 mil.....those wanting him at $10 mil are about $15 - $20 mil from what I perceive as his projected numbers (even if stats are about the same as this 21/22 season). Consider it inflation of the salaries to come. I'm hoping the Mavs bring n Sexton....otherwise Porter jr would be a perfect fit for the Mavs. I'm thinking of Jalen Green: yes he can move over to the 1; but he may be going against a 23 y/o Porter Jr for the next 8 years. Neither is stopping the other. The idea is to win a championship.....and that may mean going through a rival Dallas team with both Doncic and Porter. A Porter jr that we trained up and lost, let get away. Retraining others like Scoot Henderson in hopes that they get to where Porter Jr is now. The old two to three years away is how the 76ers lost all their talent such as Okafor, Nerlens Noel, Simmons, MCW, Fultz, R Holmes. We are doing the same as we see Kenyon wanting out. Others will follow as time is not on our side and that vicious cycle just repeats.
Tate was one of the biggest liabilities on the team last year. He forces the Rockets to play 4 on 5 when they have the ball. The fact that he has a contract at all means he's overpaid, there's just no value in a 6'4 PF that can't shoot and has no handle. I feel like he's a throwaway contract based on the fact they like him personally. Part of KPJ's struggles last year was due to guys like Tate and Green being so terrible. At the start of the season when both of them were worthless, the team had to play 3 on 5. Towards the end of the season when Green found his footing on offense and KMJ got more burn, magically KPJ was carving teams up. Flat out dumping Tate would make the Rockets better.
“This core in Houston is kinda interesting with Green, Smith, Sengun…Porter ehhh…between the way he plays and all the off-court stuff, I’m still not sure he’s the guy you go forward with.” “I think ultimately he’s a sixth man. His negotiations will be interesting. If he’s hoping for $20M a year, nope but if you can pay him Jordan Clarkson style money, I’d keep him around for something like that.” Jordan Clarkson signed a 4 year / $51,520,000 contract with the Utah Jazz, including…an annual average salary of $12,880,000. In 2022-23, Clarkson will earn a base salary of $13,340,000. 2020-21 $11,500,000 2021-22 $12,420,000 2022-23 $13,340,000 2023-24 $14,260,000 Only the KPJ cult is committed to him as part of the future. Only the KPJ cult puts him in the “core”/“foundation”/“untouchable” category with Jalen Green (and possibly Jabari Smith) Only the KPJ cult thinks he’s a star/future star. Only the KPJ cult think he’s gonna get the bag. “We better pay him $23M now or he’s gonna get $35M in the offseason!” If the Magic or Thunder or Spurs or Pacers or whoever wants to pay him $25M+, go for it! No one loves a small sample size more than the KPJ cult. “In the last 7 games of the season, he averaged 30!” “In his last 10 games, he averaged this, this and this!” “From [this date] to [that date], he averaged this, this, and this!” “Did you see, did you forget, that 50-point game two years ago!” Corey Brewer, Willie Burton, Tony Delk, Brandon Jennings, Caris LeVert, Kevin Martin, Andre Miller, Tracy Murray, Saddiq Bey all scored 50 once too! True story. ESPN’s Tim MacMahon on Kevin Porter Jr.’s contract talks with Houston: “I think there are mixed opinions internally. And, you know, frankly, externally the opinion I get most often is the Rockets should not give him an extension." There’s 30 NBA teams, 25 PGs are listed(2 teams with two players listed; Brooklyn/Simmons/Kyrie & OKC/Giddey/SGA) Where’s Kevin Porter Jr. the great?! https://hoopshype.com/lists/ranking-the-top-25-point-guards-for-the-2022-23-season/ Not listed: Clippers(Reggie Jackson/John Wall) Jazz(Mike Conley) Magic(Cole Anthony) Pelicans(Jose Alvarado?) Rockets(Kevin Porter Jr.) Spurs(Tre Jones?) Wizards(Monte Morris?) The way he’s talked about, you’d think we’re talking about the Rockets having their own Ja Morant, Luka Doncic, Trae Young.
The other team putting their best defensive wing on Porter says it all. There was only two or three other players that got that kind of respect. They were on contending teams. You don't do that for a last place team that was tanking. You just play your PG on PG your SG on SG......you don't game plan the Rockets like they are the Bucks or Suns. Crazy people. If CP3 or Cameron Payne is your PG let them defend against that awful PG Porter......you don't go out of your way to put Mikal Bridges on him. We tried to force switches but Bridges fought to go over or under the screen. DPOY candidate......afraid Porter may go off like he did vs Jrue Holiday and go for 50.
I agree with the “you guys don’t understand how expensive contracts are about to be” crew. RJ Barrett’s contract extension is a good example of a team trying to lock in a reasonable figure on him now that would still be a moveable contract in the new CBA because MLEs might one day soon be around that value. Comparing historical contract value data to this year’s class just isn’t realistic. I think regardless of your opinion of KPJ’s potential, the central question to him at this stage of the org’s rebuild is can his contract be moved for positive value in the future if the org decides to go another direction. I’m generally lower than most on KPJ and I think he is a classic 6th man/rotation guy and would be easily tradeable at 15k/yr in the new landscape. Ultimately KPJ’s contract extension is an asset management exercise for a rebuilding team because he isn’t quite good enough to be a “build your team around him” guy so your goal is to retain him as a potentially useful young player (and besides, realistically who else are we actually able to sign who has some potential for growth because of age?)and if he happens to blow up and take a leap, then great for us and if not, he’s just roster flexibility until better opportunities present themselves.
dude ain’t even Tyrese Haliburton but hey, KPJr would’ve been a top 3 pick in the 2021 draft, is better than OKC Harden, was a similar level player to Brunson last year, is an elite 3 point shooter and defender, and *insert some random tweet from a nobody
So if nobody sees him as a starting PG for a non-tanking team, what exactly are they paying him 20+ mil for? To be a scorer and 6th man? When his scoring efficiency has yet to be even close to league average?
This whole “got the best defensive guard/wing player on the opposing team” is getting monstrously overblown as well. It’s a fun fact and there are certain team situations where this fact would be very telling as to who opposing teams truly fear and respect….let’s say where an actual contending team has multiple high quality guards/wings and 1 stands out as the one getting the most high quality defensive attention…..but that’s not the Rockets. I would argue the biggest factors on who gets the most high quality defensive attention on a particular team mostly boils down to two things…. in order. Who has the ball the most and how good are the other options on the team? KPJ was on the worst team in the NBA and he had the ball in his hands by far the most on that team. The ball was in KPJs hands TWICE as much as Green or Gordon’s for the season. 6.0 minutes per game vs 3.1 for Green and Gordon. Who else were opposing teams going to have their best defensive guard/wing on most of the time when playing Houston? Our roster and game plan essentially answered that question for every opposing team who faced us.
MLEs might soon be 30 mil/yr deals? Holy hyperbole I don't even think RJ's contract is good unless he drastically improves...his efficiency is ass, he's nothing special as a defender, he's a below average playmaker, he sucks at the free throw line Knicks have been handing out doo doo contracts for years...Anyone want Julius Randle on his deal? Why are so many people bringing up decisions made by the Knicks regarding them paying Brunson and RJ when discussing KPJr and his next contract anyways? The Knicks are historically the type of organization u do the opposite of.
RJ Barrett really exists in a vacuum. It looks like New York was reacting to more internal factors, like not signing a FRP to a second contract in nearly a quarter of a century. They had invested a high draft pick and didn't want to lose him as they had in the past. They were basically bidding against themselves. They were not at any real risk of losing him in free agency. So, that's two general-consensus overpays they have made this offseason. The Knicks have been terrible and made dumb decisions for a while. Until other teams start following them down the rabbit hole, their strategy is an outlier. Smart teams will likely stay the course until that expanded cap space actually arrives, and then they will have money to spend on valuable free agents who will likely try to time their next contracts for that offseason. Meanwhile, the "smart" Knicks who anticipated the expanded salary cap, will have their roster already filled with high-priced mediocrity. I don't think I want to hold the Knicks organization up as some sort of model to aspire to be.
The receipts OMG they are going to be so glorious. I just cant wait. I already have a page of saved posts ready to go (and growing!). "Fanboy Cultists vs Haters" will be an awesome dodge ball match! It will make the insecure boomer rants from Jalen Green last year look like kindergarten coloring sessions. And for the record these talks were shifting into a more civil realm, but Im here for the petty too! Chef's kiss from KPJ Fanboy #1!!!
My favorite propaganda is that KPJ dropping 50/10 is "nothing special" and when you look into you find out only 11 players have done it since the 1983 season! Oh no! Poor Corey Brewer didnt make the cut! https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-games-with-50-points-and-10-assists-in-nba-history-by-players Its so easy .... only 11 guys in 4 decades have been able to do it!! too funny. I guess KPJ just got lucky that night. MOAR PERPEEGANDI????
Do you really believe anyone wants KPJ to fail? I would think we all want the Rockets to win. I'm hoping I am wrong. The Rockets think like the vast majority of us. He doesn’t have an extension. Like I said, I hope you're right
