What? Knowing something is true, doesn't mean you say it......but tell you a little DD story, was playing basketball in High school on a local team - and was the PG - guys were cutting in the system but weren't looking for the passes even if I saw them breaking open - then I read an article about Larry Bird and what he did his rookie year to get guys to look when they cut. He started passing the ball of his teamates heads..... Well next practice I started pinging guys - ping.....ping.....ping....by about the 4th ping - guys were still cutting but they were all looking for the ball - and continued to look for it for the rest of the time we played together. This is like what happens here discussing KPJ - I am pinging the ball off many of your heads because you don't get what is happening with the team......and where it is going. PING....PING....PING..... DD
KPJ apparently sucks because he has to play with bad players. Yet I can name 4 players who have gotten a lot better from last season (Jalen, Alpi, Usman, KJ) in spite of playing with these "bad players". And the idea that KPJ is the only player on the team who can beat his defender 1v1?? Pretty obvious that DD doesn't watch games bc KPJ has such a hard time creating any sort of separation. If we needed a bucket and the call was for ISO, I'd go with Jalen, Alpi, or EG easily over KPJ every single time.
PING Green has a higher turnover percentage if you give him the same touch numbers as KPJ.... PING Currently Jalen has 3.8apg and 3.1TO per game - and you guys want him to play point? PING DD
Well, let's not set the bar for turnovers to be KPJ. Green will hopefully evolve to a more balanced game, he will have more control of the rhythm of the game, and some things will slow down for him. It is way too early to start complaining, but I am expecting gradual progress in turnovers, even though it is a small one. Right now he is focused on scoring, exploring what he can do, and recently learning to play with other players so turnovers are natural but we cannot just act like it is totally okay.
I am not sure if you understand the concepts of percentage and usage. If you let us know how you reached that conclusion, we will have a chance to verify it for ourselves and most probably point out what is wrong with your calculation. Ohh, it is just too early to evaluate only KPJ. Green at pg should be aborted immediately. Sengun and Green both can provide more playmaking than KPJ if they are put in a position to and given some time, still much less than KPJ needed.
Jalen Green averages 3.1 turnovers on 61 touches per game Kevin Porter Jr. averages 3.9 turnovers on 81 touches per game If you consider that Jalen gets 25% less touches per game and take his turnover rate and add 25% to it, Jalen would have a turnover rate of 4.0 per game or slightly higher if he got the same number of touches as KPJ. Yet, people harp on KPJ and ignore that Green is fairly close in the same types of mistakes. PING DD
Let's start from the last one. If Green is doing the same type of mistakes 2 years later, we all will be complaining. People harp on KPJ because he had tons of time to improve, yet he did not. There is a lot of hope that green will improve. The number of touches is a meaningless comparison, because you might be bringing the ball half-court with no pressure, or you can give the ball to sengun and take it back immediately, that's another touch. That is why the stat tov% is calculated comparing your turnovers to the number of times you take a shot and go to the line. However, assist numbers are not included in this stat, which i think is a drawback and which goes in favor of KPJ at least for now. A direct comparison of two players is not very meaningful because they are asked to do different things and without going into the manipulation of numbers, it is obvious that both players are making a lot of turnovers than they should. Green's turnovers can be seen as part of the development process, KPJ's cannot.
The level to which you misuse/misunderstand stats…really no wonder you hate it every time your takes get owned by them. Their turnover rates are 13.7% and 17.7%. That’s the percent of their possessions that they turn the ball over. This eliminates the difference in touches/possessions per game. Because it’s a rate stat. Over the same number of possessions KPJ turns it over much more frequently. Per game numbers are not the same as rate stats. A 4.0% difference in turnover rates is not “fairly close” Just like a 4.0% difference in TS% is not “fairly close” You have dug your heels so deep in your pro KPJ stance that your refusal to acknowledge reality is reaching player only fan levels. And yet you spend time in the Sengun thread chastising those crazies for doing the same.
When I say "basically iso-ing", I mean he is not involving any other player in the action. KPJ getting a screen, but not passing the ball and just forcing a shot, automatically discounts the possession as isolation, but it is practically and functionally the same as isolation.
Both KPJ and Green are good players with the ability to be great. Green has a much quicker step and is double teamed on the perimeter. KPJ dribbles into the paint with no plan too many times and lacks the explosiveness of Green, but right now KPJ has the better handle. In my opinion. KPJ is the only guy on this team that can successfully bring the ball up the court. Green, Sengun, and KPJ should all initiate the offense depending on the circumstance. All the either/or arguments are silly with such a young developing team.
I'm glad there's folks who understand the numbers well enough to refute the garbage take some of these kpj fans are sprouting to defend their man.
Lies, damned lies and statistics...... You are right, we shouldn't use them to compare because their roles are different Green's is to flat out score and to sometimes pass. KPJs is to do a little bit more passing but also score - much harder to balance. I like them both, I am happy with the development of both, I am 100% a ROCKETS STAN on our guards......and I see many similarities in their turnover problem and many in their shooting, Jalen is a better shooter, KPJ is a better creator..... I am very happy we have 2 solid developing Combo guards to take us into the future, and believe the org is right in trusting them both at this time. PING DD
Explain how this balance is somehow the reason to KPJ shooting poorly. If anything, the player whose job is to flat out score would struggle to score efficiently, because scoring a lot of points and efficiently is easily the most difficult skill in the league. Jalen Green is already consistently defended by their opposing team's best defender, his job scoring is not at all easy. If anything, the player whose job is to move the ball more would have a far easier time scoring efficiently, since he can literally pick his spots with the frequency of which he receives passes.
KPJ has to balance playmaking with shooting focusing all your attention on one would help. KPJ needs to shoot better, no doubt that is his biggest weakness......that is why a player like Green who has slightly better shooting percentages but is also a turnover machine doesn't matter, because he is scoring the ball .....makes people not really care about the other stuff. KPJ is just unfairly targeted, he is developing, same as Green, and others on the team - he deserves to keep on developing and trying to get better.....he has had a bit of a rough start to this year, but nothing to panic over....he is getting it. in the Atlanta game he had 10 assists and 4 turnovers.....not bad. Then 6 and 5 in the OKC game - pretty poor....he shot ok in both other than 3pt range where he was 1-11 I believe....his shooting will revert to the norm over 36% from 3...... DD
How is he developing though? His efficiency is even worse then last year, his assists are down, his turnovers are identical. What is the development? His efficiency thus far, in 4 years, peaked his ROOKIE season (his actual rookie season, not last season that you consider his rookie season) KPJ turns the ball over 29.2% more often then Jalen. If Jalen is a "turnover machine", what is KPJ? The math here (just fyi) is the 4% difference over the 13.7% turnover rate Jalen has
Jalen Green has a turnover rate of 13.7% this year and 11.3% last year. Kevin Porter Jr has the exact same turnover rate this year he had last year - 17.7%. Their usage rates are 27.0 for Green & 26.6 for KPJ. Sorry DD you are wrong.
Serious only fan delusions…. In comparison to KPJ….Only a slightly better shooter. Also a turnover machine. Just not the real world. Denial.
