I think rookie year Harden would’ve really struggled on last year’s team…not sure if he would’ve done all that much better than KPJr last season if he was given the reigns I think 2nd year Harden would’ve easily been better than KPJ, and 3rd year Harden is not even close…it’s like comparing Soulja Boy to Jay Z
people are not suggesting Sengun will surpass jokic but if you want to compare them, Comparing first years of Sengun and Jokic is a more reasonable discussion than the current one. https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm...rfrom=2016&player_id2=sengual01&p2yrfrom=2022
I still don’t think rookie year harden would have been AS bad as last year kpj but as a rookie maybe only slightly better. The 3rd year comparison stuff is so insane that i’m still 50/50 as to whether dd actually thinks that, or thinks it’s funny to troll us since it’s so outrageous
I would give the edge to KPJr because he’s had 2 offseasons to work on his game and get used to the speed and physicality of the NBA while rookie Harden would need to acclimate and adjust given his history, he absolutely believes in the nonsense he just posted
Good lord. I thought this was the franchise that essentially blazed the trail for understanding that looking beyond the box score is essential. Advanced stats tell you vastly more than the Stone Age ppg,apg,rpg. How are fans of THIS team STILL so far behind.
Yeah you are actually way way way off on this. Harden averaged 16.8 ppg (I see you rounded down for some reason) on TS 66%. The league average at the time was TS 52.7%. Harden was so far beyond anyone else in scoring efficiency. You can literally only count with only one hand how many players in the entire league history that had a higher TS%, and Harden is by far the youngest at 22 years old doing it. Harden is on an entirely different planet compared to KPJ in scoring. In case it wasn't clear about the relationship between TS and PPG, it means Harden can easily average more than 20 points if he wanted to, and still be significantly more efficient than the league. This is what happened next season, averaging 26 points on TS 60%. Harden had only the 3rd highest USG% on his team, but had the 2nd highest VORP, and BPM, and was tied with Durant on WS/40. Kevin Porter Jr has the highest USG% on this team, but none of his VORP, BPM, WS/40 are even top 5. Granted, advanced stats like these mean little on a really bad team, but Harden was unfathomably efficient on the court. PER is not a useful stat, but we can use it in this context because if their stats really were comparable, their PER would at least be somewhat close. KPJ's PER was only 13.5, compared to Harden who was 21. Saying KPJ is better on defense is pointless. That's like saying Tony Allen, who is a 6x all-defensive team player, is comparable to Harden, just that he specializes in defense as opposed to offense. A guard's offense is several times more important than a guard's defense. Honestly speaking, saying Harden and KPJ at 22 are comparable is one of the most ignorant comments made on this board yet. Teams were lining up to give Harden a max, OKC just wanted to lock Harden down for lower than that before that happens, but Harden refused so OKC traded him. Even still, OKC was offering Harden near the max (only 5 million less). KPJ is nowhere near this value on the trade market.
according to DD, KPJr and 11-12 Harden are similar, and we traded for Harden and offered him a deal while doing zero review…lol Morey’s comments during Harden’s introductory press conference Daryl Morey's opening statement: We’ve worked hard to get back to being a championship contender and we feel like James Harden is a player we can build around and continue to improve the team around his skills. He’s an elite offensive player, a complete player, can pass, shoot, attack the basket. Even though he’s a gold medalist as an Olympian and made the Finals, I still think he’s an underrated player. He’s absolutely someone that, when they see him step into the role of the star of the Houston Rockets, people are going to realize just how good he is. Morey: Sam Presti, who obviously does an unbelievable job for Oklahoma City, they knew that maybe things weren’t going to work out with James so they talked to, I think, every team in the league in September to gauge interest and then things came together over the past week, I guess, as they made a strategic decision to potentially trade him. I actually didn’t think they’d trade him. I think he’s a great, great player. I think he’s already playing at an All-Star level and is going to be a perennial All-Star and those players are rarely traded so I thought, frankly, it was going to work out there. I’m very happy for the Houston Rockets that he’s here. Then when we were able to talk to James it was real exciting because I think our goals and his goals are aligned: We want to win a championship and this is a place where he can win a championship as a foundational player for a team. Morey: I’ve watched him play (laughs). He played well in so many different environments. Obviously playing with Kevin (Durant) and Russell (Westbrook) he played well, but if you really studied the film, and I’d like to think our scouting staff is as diligent as any in the league – I think we are – when he had to carry the load with those guys off the floor he excelled. When there was just one of them on the floor he excelled. Really, frankly, in all environments (he excelled). We did like what James talked about: That he’s someone who’s focused mostly on winning and helping his teammates, so if there’s a situation where on a given night they’re packing the paint, he can step out and shoot. If his shot is off, he can facilitate for others. If it’s a critical moment in the game and we need to get to the line to ensure a good possession, he’ll get to the line. So we’re obviously thrilled and I have no doubts he can step into a bigger role. How surprised were you that a player like Harden was available? Morey: Shocked. I actually can’t come up with any examples of a player of his caliber and age getting traded at the time he was traded – it really has never happened. So we were obviously very aggressive and we gave up a lot – Oklahoma City does a great job; we gave up some great players in Kevin (Martin) and Jeremy (Lamb) and some great draft picks – but a top player like James really never gets traded so we jumped at the chance. How does this change the team? Morey: Well I think to win the title you’ve got to have a foundational player and James is that. Simple as that. Now our job is to add another significant player or have one of our young guys develop into an All-Star-caliber player.
How do people just say stuff that’s blatantly false with supreme confidence? Harden’s last season in OKC: 2nd in the league in TS%, 7th in BPM, and 13th in VORP KPJ could never let’s stop the all the hogwosh…the malarkey…the tomfoolery it’s 2022, not 2012…nobody should be saying 2 players are at a comparable level because they simply have similar basic box score stats
Clearly that is your opinion - I can respect that. I disagree, there is a lot to compare about them at the same age, and their stats are close enough to compare - Harden is a better offensive player KPJ a better defensive player. Either way, the point was......don't sleep on KPJ he just might be the next big thing. DD
Yes, the comparison is ridiculous. But at least it let @Reeko dig out this hilarious callback: “we gave up some great players in Kevin (Martin) and Jeremy (Lamb)” How Morey did those negotiations or that press conference with a straight face I have no idea. He bluffed with 2-7 even with absolute certainty the opponent was holding aces.
Presti: In order to get Harden, I want Lamb, Martin, and picks. Morey: Holy sh*t, that’s it?!? Presti: What was that? Morey: I said those are great players, and it’s gonna be tough to give up so much for Harden. If the price is this high, I guess we have no choice. We’ll do it Presti: Ok, deal is done *hangs up the phone Morey:
I just provided you with a bunch of numbers to demonstrate the massive gap between them, and your retort is - "That's just your opinion, their numbers are actually close because I say so". They are not remotely comparable no matter how you slice it. Do you even know what TS% is, because at this point in time, you sound like you would have offered Jerry Stackhouse a max contract and built around him because he put up 30 points a game.
Are you even sure kpj is better on defense then harden was that season? The DBPM favores harden a lot. Obviously the gap on offense is so massive that the defense is irrelevant, kpj would need to have a gobert/ben wallace type impact to offset it which isn’t even possible for a guard, even if he was the best defensive guard in history.
