To Clutch: Let The Cat Out The Bag On Rons Behavior

Even when your wrong, you try to turn it around and act like you are Nostradamus and are always right. Man your wife/children/pets must have a difficult time arguing with you!

 

Chemistry was never the problem. You are mistaken here. Ron was fine with Yao, Battier and Scola. Actually most of the players loved his toughness and heart for playing with passion and fire. Yes his antics were sometimes distracting but even in the playoffs he was close to his teammates and they respected him especially when he was throwing elbows at Kobe or standing up for his team mates.

The problem between Ron and McGrady was Artest having the bigger delusional personality. He could scream at everyone and boss the young players around and they would put up with him out of fear or unwillingness to confront the man. Some just conformed to him and let him do as he pleased among them are Yao and Battier who are too nice to get in anyone's face. T-Mac was the other delusionist who believed he was the alpha dog of the team and he carried the biggest pair of balls around town that is until Artest showed up to play in Rockets uniform. This feud between T-Mac and Artest over control of the herd was what undermined our entire season. McGrady wanted Ron out and the team to go back to playing T-Mac ball that is 4 guys waiting around for McGrady to either shoot or pass them the ball. This is why Morey has made the decision that neither McGrady nor Artest are suited to play in Rick Adelman's system and thus we semi-traded one and are actively shopping the other. Though I give you credit DaDa for rightfully calling both "ball stoppers".

My point is the issues were between Ron and T-Mac not the entire team. They were all fine in the playoffs and were playing very effectively even after Yao got hurt. So Ron was not the cancer that many of this board make you believe he was.

 

When I am wrong I admit it, with Ron, I was right.....what is your point again?



DD

 

no actually, with Ron, you were wrong.

We enjoyed our best season as a team and that was partially due to Ron. Did he mesh with Tracy? No.

Did he need to? No.

Would we have made it that far without Ron? No.

Would we be in a better position now had we kept Donte? Maybe, but you've got to swing for the fences when you get to the park.

 

Why are people saying that Ron didn't mesh with Tracy? I didn't see any of these problems of meshing or having two ball-stoppers that are being discussed. They weren't very good together because Tracy was god awful and Ron isn't exactly Mr. Efficiency himself. But when Tracy was on the court, Ron always moved the ball and never did that crap we became accustomed to later in the year and in the playoffs. Ron always had a clear sense of hierarchy.

The problem was that they sucked, it wasn't a problem of not meshing. In fact, had Tracy been his normal self, I think it would have worked out great and resulted in a trip to the Finals.

And keep in mind that I am saying this as someone who is glad to see Ron gone, so this opinion isn't out of defense of him or anything.

 

it's true that ron and tracy did not get along at all. but that shouldn't be news, as nobody in that locker room likes tracy.

 

They didn't mesh in the sense that Ron deferred too much while tracy was in the line-up and he ended up being more of a question mark until Tracy finally left the line-up. At that point in time, if memory serves, is when the team finally gelled and we made our move. It was also at that point in time, that Ron's game proved to be good for the Rockets.

 

i fully believe the reports that they had problems in the lockerroom. but i didn't really observe any issues on the court other than the fact that tracy sucked.

 

while half of your equation is correct, Tracy did suck, the other half is that Ron was deferring to sucktitude, therefore making the tandem a poor fit.

 

I agree with your observation but I guess we are just drawing different conclusions.

What I mean is that Dakota is claiming he was right all along about them not meshing because they were both ball stoppers or whatever. However, you seem to have also observed, as I did, that Ron CLEARLY deferred to tracy.

my point is that i saw the deference as a good thing. the only problem was that he was deferring to a guy that was sucking (tracy). but i still preferred his deference to the 'Ron Mode' crap he pulled in the second half where he would try to take on the whole team by himself. so what i mean is that this isn't an issue of them fundamentally not being able to coexist like dakota is claiming. had tracy been his normal self, ron would have continued to defer and do the things that he did best in helping the team - spot up for 3's, defend, and run.

 

Sure we could have gotten an asset out of Artest, but we for sure wouldn't have been able to get out of the first round without him. I'd rather get that monkey off our backs than trade Artest away for some unknown commodities in draft picks and be first round fodder again and have to listen to ESPN b**** about us not getting out of the first round.

What would you rather have?
Get nothing out of Artest but go to 2nd round or get some measly draft picks and be first round fodder again like normal

 

You are correct in that he was trying to do the things that he helps teams win with (3s, defense). However, when he was referring to Tracy, he was even more inefficient than he was at the end of the season without Tracy. When he only got a small amount of touches each game, it seemed to hurt his efficiency. He had to get "warm" if you will by dribbling 16 secs for a few possessions. So while he could have coexisted with Tracy very well if Tracy hadn't sucked he probably wouldn't have done as well as you are thinking.

But even still, we would have been a better team with a non-sucking Tracy and a slightly more inefficient Ron deferring to him. I am happy that we got rid of an inefficient player who did not play within the system. Hopefully Ariza will fit the mold better with his slashing and young legs.

 

You guys can call it deference or whatever you like, the point is still the same that their games did not compliment each other well. They occupied the same space on the floor.

They both needed the ball in their hands to be successful. I contend that it would never work, and the only reason they had any success with Ron at all was because Tracy went out with injury.

Ron was not great shakes either, if you remember his "in and out of the lineup with Ankle" issues.

I think they should have traded him at the deadline for something....maybe they couldn't but his value as an expiring contract is now moot, and the team gave up 2 first round picks for him for basically a years rental.

Also, the team got to the 2nd round with him, he was surely a factor, but they might have gotten there anyway....and the object is not 2nd round it is championship, and I never thought Ron got us closer to that goal.....

Still don't.

DD

 

When we need a tough rebound in the 4th, we will miss Ronnies nuts...


I will never forget our sackless clutch performances against the Mavs and the Jazz.


Ron eliminated that "softness".

 

D.D., with Yao and TMac essentially out the door and Artest gone, the Rockets are now a team of role players. The 08-09 season will likely have to hold us awhile as the highpoint of the last decade (plus). With the Spurs and Mavs loading up, how do we even get out of Texas? It will take some serious Morey magic to get the team back to contender status, no?

 

So with 2 injury riddled stars Ron provided insurance against one going out and it got us to the second round.

hell if the other insurance policy hadn't gotten injured too (deke) we probably would have made it to and won the finals. So really, it did get us closer.

Moreover, after 10 years without getting to the second round, there was some true satisfaction for most from this achievment, and had Yao not broke-footed his way out of the NBA, we'd have retained Ron and been poised to again compete for the championship.

I just don't see your point. But you just keep hammering it home in every thread you can.

 

No doubt about it, how sad is that?

DD

 

11 pages. Clutch has not made a peep. And it still goes strong.

 

Answer: It'd be downright depressing if I had not gone through the last 4 seasons of disappointment. It somewhat lessened the blow. Now that's depressing.

 

This is depressing