Kind of weird. You talk about believing in "what this country was founded for"... and then go on to pretty much destroy your own argument. What you're suggesting is everyone follows one ideal... which is yours. No dissenting voice. If you like that kind of society, then the US is the wrong place to be in.
cool! do you believe in the death penalty for adultery as well? do you believe women are dirty for twice as long if they give birth to a daughter? should prostitutes be burned alive? leviticus really has some gems in it!
how can you be for "traditional family values" and at the same time restrict who gets to be a family?
I'm going to try to give you an honest and reasonable response to what I consider some fairly unreasonable questions. It seems to me you are incredibly simplifying very complex issues and in turn are looking for simplistic answers. There are tons of threads with pages and pages to them in regard to the issues you raise and you will find that the so called liberals that you are referring to actually have a range of views on any of these issues and even ones that might agree in general come to that view in different ways and have some sharp differences to the degrees they agree. At the same time the conservatives you will find also have their own differences and there is nuances on both sides that can't be fully expressed in the simplistic terms you are painting these issues out to be. The problem that I see with your post and your questions is that you call for respect yet your phrasing of the questions immediately turns them into a bludgeon between one side or the other. So you are calling for respect yet start off right away demanding simplistic answers that I don't believe show respect to the issues you raise or to the posters you are asking. In other words you start off with a closed mind. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that this isn't purposeful on your part and you are just using the terminology and language that you are used to hearing. I would say that if you want to really get a feel for why people have certain positions to take a look at each one individually rather than launch a blanket salvo of hot button issues at someone. Indeed....
Yikes. As a Conservative, even I cringe at the OP's post. Although he asks legitimate questions (Why do liberals think so differently?), the context is an impossible starting point. I think a much better question for people in general would be to ask them if they can explain exactly what they think a 'liberal' is, and exactly what they think a 'conservative' is. Most people 'believe what they believe' pretty strongly, but when asked to actually think about it and analyze it, they (I am talking about everybody, myself included here) inevitably and almost immediately run into a sort of haze, filled with uncertainty, because so much of what we 'believe' is based on emotion rather than reason. But being asked to clarify something removes the emotion and forces us to really examine what we are willing to stand behind. I have never met anyone who, if honest, did not shift in the 'opposite' direction at least a little bit when they really start to think and stop just emotionally reacting to what other people say and do.
Conservatives think they know what is right. Liberals think they know what is wrong. Why do you not support traditional family values? Well you're going to have to spell out what you define as family values, then we can debate the relative merits of your opinion. I think most anyone would agree that a loving, nurturing family unit is the basis of finding happiness. Why do you see nothing wrong with killing an innocent baby? You may define life at conception but after a most considered debate before the most revered authority in our political system the legal definition is something else. That is the process of government in the country you profess to love. Why do you undermine the rules so that there is an entirely different set of rules for someone else? I'm not even sure what you mean there but I will say democracy is an ongoing process of revision and refinement. Protest and even peaceful civil disobedience is part of that process Why do you think it is OK to have illegal immigrants roaming our country? I don't. Maybe someone who does will speak up. My position is a result of my desire to preserve my quality of life and cut short the problems we will face from overpopulation, If I discriminate it's because the mass migration of a culture that shuns birth control scares me. Why is it OK for two people of the same sex to be married? Well I believe the constitution entitles all people to equal protection. If rights and privileges are extended to people who choose to declare themselves as a family unit then it needs to apply to all people. Yeah, I'd support polygamist too. Marriage just needs to be a civil contract acknowledging a legal association assigning responsibilities and rights of survviorship. My best to you, and I hope you find comfort in what ever religion you choose to practice. But if it's Christianity try that new part about love, passivity, humbleness, tolerance and forgiveness. That older part was just written by crazy people.
This is a joke right? Where is the hidden camera? Don't waste your fingers people, there's no point in talking to somebody who's opening to a discussion is "these are the things I think you believe in, now defend these positions I've attributed to you!"
I don't think logic forms a large percentage of the OP's thought process, basso. (I thought OP was on The Andy Griffith Show?? Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever get all the web jargon straight) Impeach Bush/Nixon... whoops! I meant Cheney.
I believe in God, too. I believe that Christ died for us as well. And I am in absolute agreement that He loves us all. I think you'd probably call me a liberal. Others on this board would not. I'd reject either label, frankly. so here goes: 1. I have nothing against this country. It's my home and I love it. I have lots of problems with our government. And if you believe in the same God I do, you should too. Put nationalism aside. Reject it. It's ok to love your country....but if you are who you claim to be, you're a citizen of the Kingdom of God long before you're an American. You worship a God that calls you to look beyond nations and races and citizenship and recognize that every human being on the face of this planet is created in God's image. That their lives are equally of value, no matter where they live...no matter their heritage...no matter who or what they worship...no matter anything. That has staggering implications for how you think about virtually every social issue, including how our treatment of the environment has effect on other people, and foreign policy issue that comes up. To the extent our nation ignores that, we become Babylon...we become Rome. The message of the NT is one that is vehemently anti-empire...anti-exploitation. The United States has become that in many respects. If you see that, you don't have to hate the country....in fact, you could love it so much that you have to change it. Don't be absorbed by this culture...there is culture in parts of the Church right now that would trade the dove for the hawk with little thought. I don't think that's of Jesus. There's a culture in parts of the Church right now that aggrandizes free markets and money like deities....I'm certain that's not of Jesus. How are you treating the very least in our culture?? How do you treat single mothers? How do you treat ex-convicts finding their way out of prison? The poor?? To the extent the Church is doing anything other than selflessly loving these people like crazy it has stopped being the Church. It can close the doors and fold up shop and join the other country clubs where people hide from culture behind with all luxuries, tucked away in a compound where it never has to engage the messiness world. 2. These issues like gay marriage and abortion. They seem to those outside the Church to be the only issues the Church cares about. Because the Church has been sooooooo vocal on these issues. I'm against abortion. I'm also against treating pregnant women who are considering it with any less respect or love. I'm against not helping these women find their way if they keep the baby....with whatever resources are necessary. I'm against shaming people who make the decision to have an abortion, as well....I'm against anything that wouldn't look like what Christ looked like in that scenario...and it was NOT pointing and judgment. I'm not sure the Church has a lick of credibility left anymore to comment on marriage. The divorce rate in the Church is equal to the divorce rate outside of it. Straighten that out, and then we'll discuss who gets to define what marriage means in our culture. But if you find yourself so polarized that you're pointing the finger at others to demonize, you've missed entirely the point of Jesus...I'm hoping that's not the case. 3. Why is illegal immigration a theological issue for you?? You realize there are people all over the map on this issue within the Church, right? 4. At the end of the day, there is freedom here. I think that's a good thing. I don't want to force Christ on anyone in anyway that doesn't look like friendship and love. Laws don't change hearts. Don't live by legalism. God freed you from that....he freed us all from that. James 1:27 -- Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
oh my crap, please take that picture down. ugh. this is my number one issue...this junction of the cross and the flag. it presents a theology wholly out of step with the NT....and it provides a platform that can not be questioned in the mind of the "believers." more importantly...it perverts Jesus and that creeps me out beyond belief.
