How am I making exuses?? I gave stats and facts...33-8 after he came back from injury last year...does it hurt you that much that I am right about that?? Can't you just admit that we need BOTH Yao and Tmac together? I'm as big a Yao fan as I am a Tmac fan, because we need both to be successful. When Tmac was relatively healthy, we started out 6-1, and we finished 33-8, even without Yao (we did overachieve just like this year). Oustide of that, when Tmac was either out or hurt, we went 16-18. The #'s don't lie my friend...its here, imprinted in NBA history forever. Where as your opinion is just your opinion. Your gonna have to do better than just ROTFLMAO at me, lol. There is a reason why most people who have kept up with our debate (I must add that I'm clearly winning and more credible), have agreed with me because I state facts and stats, where as you just continue to state your opinion. I know you've been a member since 97 or so, which is great! I was only 9 years old back then without a computer, but that doesn't mean you don't need to back up your posts with debates, if you expect to have any credibility. I would suggest basketball-reference.com You can find anything on there. Go look up #'s, detailed stats, head2heads, player comparisons. It will prove to be useful. You aint gonna win without it...I will win this argument unless if you do get some stats or factual evidence. Until then, your argument is just pure BS!
One last thing Knight: Tmac's career stats 22.1ppg .436 FG% .339 3p% 4.7 apg 6.1 rpg .749 FT% 18.4 SHOTS per game 1.2 points per shot 35.0 average minutes played per game Versus the guy you are making fun of Maggette Corey's career stats 16.3ppg .451 FG% .323 3pt% 2.2 apg 5.1 rpg .819 FT% 11.1 SHOTS per game 1.47points per shot 29.3 average minutes played per game It is not that much of a difference, and one guy plays 5 minutes less a game... I am not saying Maggette is as good as Tmac. However, one is getting paid $21 million while the other is only paid $8 million. Sure doesn't look all that different to me when you factor in salary and what you can do around them. Neither have ever won anything, but as you said, just blame their crappy teamates, right? And Tmac takes 7 more shots per game than Maggette, but he is not the ball hog, right? And you don't back up anything with stats, you pick and choose BS to try to make a point.....same as anyone else. The Rockets went 33-8 primarily because Scola was inserted into the starting lineup, and Landry exploded. If you actually look at how Tmac played, he struggled a lot, even during that streak... DD
We had a very favorable matchup vs. Portland...with Tmac, we beat them in a sweep or 5 games tops. Imagine a playoff series or a game where Yao isn't fronted and can get shots righ at the rim??!! A guy who can get the ball to Yao and make a play for others, and score 20-45+ points on any given night?? Who is this magical player?? "Ohh wait, its Tracy McGrady, even though he does all that, he says some things that I don't like, and he doesn't play basketball the way I want, which is to have each player hold the ball for 3 seconds or less, even though he is one of the best scorers and playmakers in the NBA. I'd rather take my chances without him, even though we desperately needed somebody who can get us a good shot, and take pressure of our most efficient player and get him the ball. I hate Tmac, so forget him, our "teamball" concept will work in the playoffs, even without a go to playmaker in the playoffs! I fully trust Aaron Brooks to become the next Tony Parker and Battier will get Yao the ball!!" Is that what you were thinking before the Portland series?? lol. We had a favorable matchup, Yao doesn't even have a great series and we still win. We were the deeper team, just like Dallas and Utah were the deeper and healthier teams vs. the Rockets in 2005, 2007, and 2008. It wasn't because Tmac wasn't there. He makes it easier for the rest of our team...just ask Rick Adelman how badly he wants him right now.
Oh, so, where are those credible facts you are so fond of saying you have, or are you saying this is your opinion? How can you explain Tmac led teams blowing 4 home court advantages? Sure it is a team game, but isn't it funny that all the team did was replace Tmac with a guy who is a lessor offensive player, but a much better defender in Ron Artest and they sail through the first round. I am sure Rick would like to have a healthy Tmac, who wouldn't? However, unless he somehow gets a magical health bean, it ain't happening anytime soon......so get what you can for him.....and wish him well. His days as a Rocket are over...the team has moved on...... DD
WTF when did that happen? Last year we didn't have Yao and the year before we didn't have Scola (the leading scorer) Landry or Brooks.
Corey Maggette averages the same amount or more turnovers per game than assistst!! He's had 1 or 2 winning seasons in the NBA. If its so easy to make an all star game, why hasn't he? He's more efficient as far as shooting goes, but he's never been asked to lead a team. Tmac gets paid that much because his talent warrants that. You say he struggled during the streak, okay I agree, but also note that he had a bad left shoulder, a sprained left thumb, and the knee injury came back, which really caused him to struggle. I didn't say Scola didn't help the team...I thought I made that clear in my previous posts. I agree getting rid of Mike James, Bonzi and developing and starting Scola and Landry was a big reason why we went on that streak. No way one guy gets us on a streak like that. It was a team effort, but Tmac did lead the way. How am I picking and choosing BS?? You continue to try to compare Corey Maggette of all f*****ing people!! Compare Paul Pierce, Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy. You can't be serious with this Corey Maggette stuff. His basketball IQ is horrible. Its hard to imagine that he went to the same school as Grant Hill, Battier, Boozer, and Brand. Its obvious that he was only there 1 year. I mean, Maggette's been in the playoffs once with the Clips, and maybe once with the Magic (rookie year) he hasn't done anything to even help his team win a playoff series. Tmac has put up some of the best #'s in playoff history, so you can't blame him for not winning a series. I've shown you what his teammates outside of Yao has done. If he's so horrible, why does JVG til this day continue to praise Tmac?? He had to have done something right, because JVG is one of the harshest critics on his players. I've given you plenty of stats throughout the day...what more do you want? We should just have a poll and see who's argument wins...that might be the only way to settle this, lol.
True, last year was not a good comparison, you need both Yao and Tmac on the court for comparison....the first Utah series and the Dallas series are probably better comparisons. DD
McGrady vs Maggette is not even close though man. You just have to watch them play to see McGrady although takes more shots, should do because when he is hot he will flat out score the ball. Even attitude wise, look at Maggette this year. Gets the ball and thats where it ends, he dosent look to pass or get anyone involved and caused alot of locker room tension, I recall an incident between he and J Crawford this year. The stats may not be far off but no way would Maggette get the attention from defences that McGrady does. Regardless of salaries you would have to take McGrady because the attention he draws from defences not to mention his play making abilities. Your both beating a dead horse here guys..lets just hope Tmac gets healthy and when/if he comes back next year hope he gives 100% and helps this team like he has the last few years.
Didn't one of them came down to not being able to grab a rebound while the other was just a bad matchup for Yao? I forgot it's been such a long time.
Now we are getting somewhere and to my primary beef with Tmac, he is a LOUSY leader. We do not need him as a leader, because frankly he sucks at it. This year, he was practically tossed out of the clubhouse because of all his drama. 3 weeks off, 2 weeks off...etc..etc..etc.... Teamates questioning his work ethic, and dedication to rehab and the team, him whining in the press about his touches, tosses teamates under the bus left and right. If you are going to lead...YOU LEAD......Tmac wants to be a leader, but at the end of the day, the guy is a poser, he can't lead anyone, when things are good, it is all about "I imposed my will" when things struggle it is all "We didn't do it right".... The guy is an absolutely horrible leader, but he gets paid like one of the NBA's elite.... Sure, he was an all star, and for people who only care about high flying dunks and stats etc...that may look impressive, but when you look more deeply at it, Weisbrod was 100% correct, Tmac is as big of a problem as he is a talent. You just can not win with him leading any team.....ever. And my point about Maggette was that he is better than most give him credit for........and even though Tmac is a better talent - when healthy- it is not as big of a difference as people may think. DD
How would that settle anything? You may not be aware, but there are a lot of clutchfans who are idiots.
Portland is young and a rely heavily on 2 players: Brandon Roy and Aldridge. Their role players didn't show up for the playoffs. Their centers were averaging 4-5 fouls per game trying to guard Yao. They were bascially the 2007 Rockets, with much less talented stars. How much more favorable do you want? Also get your facts straight, we had Home Court Advantage only during our 2 series with Utah, one in which Yao didn't play and Rafer was out 2.5 games. Dallas was clearly more talented and deeper than us, and Utah was clearly more deeper and healthier than us. We didn't replace Tmac with one guy, our young guys developed as well. Lowery, Scola, Landry, Brooks, and Wafer all developed and performed in the first round. It is a team game, and those guys picked up the slack for Yao when he was fronted. Artest did a servicable job trying to take Tmac's place, but offensively he's just not that talented. But he is trying, so I do give him credit for that.
Tmac's team up 3-1 against Detroit "Boy it feels good to be out of the first round" Rocket's up 2-0 against Dallas coming home. Rockets HCA versus Utah both years. That makes 4 times he has been leading a team that either had HCA, or won it and then failed to hold on. Just saying... Just trade Tmac for Manu, both injured.....and see which team is better off when they both get healthy next year. DD
this post is now going in circles. all we know is tmac is rehabbing 6-8 hrs/day. his next update should be at the end of this month or june. we'll see how his progress is going. optimistic: he will be back ready by training camp mildly optimistic: he will be back by first month pessimistic: maybe around the all-star break we'll know once we get more updates. i'm optimistic he'll be ready to play at least by the first month. there's too much riding on him. he has a contract to earn first of all. and he has a reputation to salvage. i don't care what kind of heart tracy has, but once you've been labeled once as a all-world player and one of the top 5 players to now people writing you off, there must be some motivation. last year, he still made all-nba team so he might have slacked off. this year he's a scrub. trust me, he will be back. we'll just see when.
I never said Tmac was a great leader, because he is not. I'll admit that. Everybody is not a leader, but when he was forced to be a leader, he did a good job. He led a crap Orlando team to a 3-1 lead they had no business having. He led us to a 2-0 lead on a Dallas team we had no business taking them to 7, and the one where I felt he had a chance to win was in 2007, when wehad a 2-0 as well, but he and Yao did not get enough help. Tmac in Game 5 and Game 7 had 55 points and 29 assists, not much more you can do there...He led a team of Deke, Hayes, Howard, Hayes, Head, Alston, Lucas III, and Snyder to a 20-12 record without Yao. He helped us stay on the 22 game win streak last year to help us get HCA. He may not be a great leader, but he's led us when he's had to. But I'll agree, leadership isn't his strength. I've been arguing about talent all day. I never said he was a great leader. He led us with his play to winning seasons and winning streaks, but he is not a great vocal or inspirational leader. That was Deke, Rafer, and Battier. Tmac and Yao led in the style Hakeem did, which was by example. I'll agree with you on this topic, but you can't tell me the man wasn't as talented as Kobe, Lebron, Dwade, Pierce, J. Johnson, and Brandon Roy, throughout this decade. Like I said before...he aint paid to talk. He's paid to play basketball, so I don't care about a word he says. If he never said another word I could care less. If he wrote a book or movie, I could care less. I am worried about what he does ON THE COURT. When he didn't play, he was clearly hurt. What do you want him to do? He tried to play, he knows his body better than anybody, and he felt that rest might have helped it, it didn't so thats what led to his season ending surgery. You bring up Weisbrod...where the hell is he now?? He drove Orlando into the ground, and he's never been heard from since in the NBA. Much credibility there... Its a monumental difference with Tmac and Maggette. How many double teams does Maggette draw? How many elite defenders are strategizing to containt Maggette? How many plays does Maggette make for other players vs. turning the ball over making plays for the other team. Maggette is horrible. Plain and simple. He can score decently, but he's so one-dimensional! Its an insult to compare him to any good well rounded player.
He has certainly had his share of missed games but Tmac is coming off microfracture surgery....would you want to bet your franchises future and play another year with a $23 million dollar hole on your roster? I think his contract will be valuable, you might be able to get Maggette and Ellis for him......or Ellis and Turiaf, get some good players off teams that are struggling financially. I doubt Tmac stays.....I think the Rockets brass and most fans have had enough of his drama. DD
Untill now Maggette was just as bad. McGrady injury is a bit of unknown as some say its not as severe, hopefully that is the case. Doubt Morey would want Maggettes contract, possibly Ellis and Turiaf would be a nice combo to get though. Im a big fan of Monta and would love to see him in Red!
Your boy Maggette has missed 181 games in 10 seasons with MUCH less responsiblity. This includes 31 games missed this year...Great comeback... Tmac has had durability issues: missed 166 games in 12 years, while having to do everything for his team to be competetive. Lets see what the NBA thinks of Tmac MVP voting results for Tracy McGrady courtesy of basketball-reference.com 2001-6th 2002-4th 2003-4th 2005-7th 2007-6th 2008-8th Thats 6 times that he's been voted in the top 10 in MVP voting...obviously he's trash right, I mean, you don't have to work hard to do this. Only the best league in the world thinks he's worth mentioning in the most valuable player category. P.S. classy move on your part, by saying "tmac aint healthy, and may never be again. What happened to you not wishing bad health on anybody? Or atleast wanting trade value for him.
