Time to take out Hamas

I said that it was suspicious but was not saying that they were fake. But it's good to know that CNN would never lie. I'd be shocked if CNN were to say: "Damn...you got us. Sorry about that."

 

I am not trying to be racist, but isn't Reuters a news org founded in Israel? It wasn't CNN's footage, so how would they've known the footage was old or not? They wouldn't.

 

x34 & Franchise2001:

Thanks, guys. Back for a little while, at least. It's nice to be home again.

Azadre - I don't know about those pics, but the Palestinian celebrations on 9-11 did really happen. It was all over the news, and I for one will never forget it. They lost alot of my sympathies that day.

Interesting aside: Israel is contemplating booting CNN from their networks, ostensibly over financial squabbles. But it is no big secret that CNN has a distinct anti-Israel bias, and I can't really blame them for doing it. What can you say about a news network that gleefully interviews Hamas spokesmen before the ambulances have even cleared the bomb sites?

 

CNN isn't alone. Many news organizations from CNN to FNC to the BBC have taken a softer stance on the Palestinians recently. This has happened since Israel stopped exercising restrain in their choice of targets.

About 2 months ago FNC reported that Israeli troops stopped a Palestinian car at a checkpoint. The woman was in labor. They strip searched her to make sure she was pregnant...and they shot the baby's father who had been driving her to the medical facility. The Israeli government did not deny the story and expressed sorrow that the soldiers had been overzealous. Another case was last weeks missile strike of a Palestinian neighborhood. The FNC correspondent on the phone spoke in absolute gorror as she reported that dead babies and children had been wheeled right past her.

The news agencies have become softer on the Palestinians as a result of increased Israeli aggression. Now that this has happened the Israeli government wants to boot them out.

 

Really? I thought it WAS just old footage, at least that's what a teacher told me. That does make me lose some, no, a lot of respect for Palestanians. But still no respect gained for Israel.
I just did a search for Hezbollah and found this shocker out. While I was in Houston visiting Dad, I was searching through the foreign channels and found a channel all kinds of violence against Palestine and thought it was awkward. The channel was Al Manner. Never thought twice about it. Well I did a search for Hezbollah and found they had a channel. Turns out that channel was Al-manner.

 

Azadre:

If we have to choose between the lesser of two evils - and in this case we do, neutrality is not an option - then I'll choose the side that doesn't celebrate death. There's something seriously wrong with any society that throws a party solely to celebrate the murder of civilians.

War is hell, and civilians get killed. It is an inevitability, no matter how careful you are. It is unfortunate to say the least, and should never be celebrated. Most Israelis mourn for those innocent Palestinians caught in the crossfire - they never celebrate it; the Palestinians throw parties when babies get blown up.

As much as I feel for the innocent Palestians who have gotten a raw deal out of all of this, it is not that difficult to choose sides in this conflict, despite the less-than-honorable conduct the Israelis sometimes display. I will always choose the side that doesn't *intentionally* target civilians.

 

Really? When? Where?

 

Yeah...and the Rockets might sign me to a big, fat contract. The Israeli PEOPLE may want peace, but their GOVERNMENT does not. This is about two groups wanting the same land because they both think that God gave it to them. The Israeli government would just assume to exterminate the Palestinians as though they were the global form of Orkin.

I am NOT saying that the Palestinians are in the right. All I am saying is that BOTH groups are part of the problem and neither of them are behaving in an acceptable manner.

 

Having married into a Jewish family that has some of its members going to Israel to live on a kabutz part of the year I'd venture a guess to say that I follow it better than most...maybe even you.

 

What they never agreed to was lifting the curfews and allowing the Palestinian people to have an economy. That is why they walked out and you would have too.

Why do we not react the same way when the Catholics in Northern Ireland were oppressed? It's roughly the same lifestyle the Palestinians are leading except the Catholics had no tight curfews.

 

This was the "Palestinian State" proposed by Israel:

<IMG src="http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/maps/images/peace_david2.jpg">

The area in green would have been Palestinian. As you can see, first of all, it would be three separate pieces with Israeli-controlled land between them. From what I understand, they also would not have had water rights or full control of their airspace. Essentially, they would still have been at the mercy of Israel, and the world would lose interest because they would have "gotten their state".

I would have walked away from that proposal too. You can't tell me you honestly think a proposal for a country split in 3 pieces is a reasonable idea.

 

Not to mention the fact that every time Israel has agreed to retreat from the Gaza strip...they have quickly moved back in as soon as the cameras stopped rolling. Why would the Palestinians trust them after all that?

The Palestinians should NOT resort to terrorism in furtherance of their goals, but the Israelis aren't a whole lot better.

 

Uh... Arafat walked away from the Barak deal only after the Israelis had surprised them and given them virtually everything they had demanded. When he saw that the Israelis weren't going to put forth any dealbreakers of their own, he demanded "right of return" - which has always been a dealbreaker. In case you're not familiar with it, this particular demand would effectively end Israel's existence...

Keep in mind that the Palestinians have *never* been in a strong bargaining position here, and beggars can't be choosers. They pissed away their best chance to get a state, and it was probably their last chance in hindsight. Only new leadership and a total reorganization of their social power structures can give any hope of saving them now.

The Israelis will listen to any reasonable and sincere proposals they come up with, provided that these changes are made. Short of that, nothing will work. The current Palestinian leadership cannot be trusted to negotiate (much less act) in good faith.

As for the Israelis leaving and then moving back into the occupied territories, that is a fairly common occurrance. They have been trying to leave the occupied territories for over a decade now. But every time it is the same: a negotiated pullout is arranged, the IDF pulls out, and then spate of terrorist attacks sucks them right back in. Do you think the IDF occupies those territories just because they like the scenery? The occupation is very taxing on the IDF, but they have no choice. Just as with us in Afghanistan, when you are attacked, you must go to the attacker to interrupt his business. The Israelis are forced to do this on a weekly basis. They do not enjoy doing it.

 

Of course not...they were booted out of their homeswhen Israel was founded by the UN in 1948. They've been fighting ever since. What has Israel done in response? Kill the economy, keep them in poverty, occupy their lands and shoot one when they get uppity.

Sure the Palestinians started it, but if somebody were to take over my home and boot me out I'd be firing my guns too.

I just keep saying it...so I'll say it a different way...there are NO "good guys" over there. Each side is unnecessarily violent toward the other.

And Major is right. A country divided into 3 with your enemy in between them all is a crappy deal.

 

For someone who thinks that there are no "good guys" over there, you sure seem to have made up your mind about who the "bad guys" are...

Are you a college student? Your arguments sound familiar, and you do not appear to understand the true nature of this conflict. "Unnecessary violence"? It's a *war for survival* at its base. The Arabs want to erase the state of Israel, and the Israelis want to stop them from doing it.

I am sick and tired of hearing people gripe about morality and such in this conflict, and then jumping around and siding with the faction that seeks to perpetrate genocide.

I will say it again: I will always - always - take the side of those who do not intentionally attack civilians. Unless someone does the same, they can keep their skewed claims of moral superiority to themselves.

 

Hey a treeman sighting. Sup man!

 

Yep. I said they're ALL perpetrating evil. I said that many times...I hope you read it.

I'm a licensed attorney, not as if that is relevant. I understand this conflict just fine thank you. But I appreciate you talking down to me and questioning my intelligence because I disagree with you.

So now you wish to stiffle those who disagree with YOUR assessment of the moral parties. Beautiful.