Caveman you said... "To those who still believ that Rudy can help this team to get better, I say dream on! But, the reality is that no team can be great as long as they play only one-on-one games. Not Bulls, Not Lakers and certainly not these Rockets." WHAT??!?!?!?!? Every one of those teams had a great one on one player. Name one NBA champion that did not have a GREAT one on one player to break down the defense. I am beginning to think that some of you NEVER played the game or understand how to play TEAM ball. Yes, Mobley's ISO play is frustrating, but Rudy is trying to find something that works, and I am sure he will try everything until something finally succeeds. He has a team of ROOKIES and SCRUBS people !!! ROOKIES AND SCRUBS !!! It is going to take some time for them to learn how to play the NBA game. This team will come together, not this year, and perhaps not even next year, but with the EXPERIENCE gained they will appreciate what it takes to really WIN in this league. You can TELL a player what it takes to win, but until they see it for themselves they will struggle. Think of it this way, this is a team of TEENAGERS, not grown ups ...TEENAGERS who think they know everything but will find out...through trial and ERROR...lots of ERROR, how to win. Patience people....Rudy can coach and is coaching, but if he tells Mobley to ISO and drive and dish, then Mobes takes an 18 foot jumper.....what can you do......they are ROOKIES and make ROOKIE MISTAKES !!! DaDakota "Basketball is a game of experience, without it you are dirt"
dream_team: what playing credentials do you have to judge the effectiveness and "potential" of our players? sniff around your own toilet bowl before you complain about mine, buddy. bballfanatic: did you say that rudy was a better coach than chaney when we first hired him? probably not. you know why? because he had no experience either. but time has changed that and clouded many of our visions of that fact. change is the only constant. Not Chaney: You call Rudy pathetic and PJ a jerk. Time to use some thought. did i stutter? hey partner and nolen: you do realize that was hypocritical (hey partner, not nolen) to criticize others of backseat driving (accented w/bold letters) then hop in the backseat yourself - steering wheel in hand.... as for the meat of your post...defensive rotations did cost us part of that game. however, if you didn't notice, toronto ran the same play twice in the first quarter and we had the EXACT, SAME ROTATION that time. guess what the result was...2 made jumpers by oakley. by the way, oakley is a good set shooter. just thought i'd point that out. as for mobley, i don't pin the loss of the game on him, completely. like i said b4, he is running the play that was called from the bench. yes, it is his decision what to do with the ball (and that part, the decision making part) is cut-mob's fault. however, it was apparent to me and to you how questionable cut-mob's decision making had been for the ENTIRE 4TH QUARTER. so, as a coach do you rely on that decision making when the game comes down to one shot? lastly... Hardwood Hammer: you hit the nail on the head. i hope these guys don't think i'm some fair weather fan who just left being a bulls and spurs fan. i'm not. been rocket red since my birth. grew up in sugarland. it hurts like hell to see us play so poorly, with our loyal coach lost and loyal veterans sidelined. but i have faced the reality that change is necessary and constant. does it mean i don't cheer for our rox? no. i love em to death. but i also want what's best for our team. so if - and when - rudy gets moved away from his position as head coach are the rest of you guys gonna say, "OH, LES MADE THE RIGHT DECISION." or are you going to stay vigilant in your rose colored beliefs? be a man. or a woman. or whatever you may be. but please, release the rocket umbilical cord and open your eyes. i agree that our players are young. that's an irrefutable fact. but, do you think rudy is the man to develop these players? if so, answer a question for me, oh ye faithful... why is orlando, with a comparable if not worse team, with a first year rookie coach, a better team than us? even with our famed 200 Olympic coach????
DaDakota: sorry, i didn't see your post. regarding the one-on-one thing, none of those teams (bulls, lakers, etc.) had the one-on-one play as the centralize play of their offense. think about what calvin murphy said during the game (can't believe i'm quoting murph)... run a damn play! if the play doesn't work and the clock gets down to 7 seconds and you don't have a shot, then your best one-on-one player should take over. (paraphrased) now, what rudy does is give cut-mob the ball with 21-18 seconds left on the clock and clear for an iso. that is completely different and never gets anyone involved but the iso player. do you call that "team ball"? now where do those decisions come from?
Verse, While I agree with some of the context of your argument, I do not agree with your main point. I think the Rockets need to learn how to win, and I think that is EXACTLY what Rudy is trying to teach them. Yes, they could run a different play, but as HEYPARTNER correctly summized the ISO for Cat is our most effective play, right now. I think Rudy is searching for a leader, and is seeing what he has in Cat, Rudy is setting this team up for the future, and will trade him if he thinks he will not progress further. As for team ball, I HATE the ISO plays as it does not get the team involved. I would rather have the team pass the ball around, but someone needs to get the defense on their heels to set up their teamate for an open shot. Cuttino will learn..HOPEFULLY !! DaDakota PS ALL of the great teams had the one on one play as part of their offense...JORDAN POSTING...KAREEM POSTING...MAGIC POSTING..MCHALE POSTING...ETC...ETC...perhaps we need a post player.... Another post..hehe [This message has been edited by DaDakota (edited December 30, 1999).]
Verse, what an original reply. I enjoyed it. heypartner- right on with your post. Good stuff. ------------------ We would like to get rookie Francis on the break for some easy scoops in the first quarter...
Not Chaney: i'd be more than glad to give you an original elaborate response if you'd give me an originial elaborate post to respond to. let's see... you called Rudy pathetic and PJ a jerk time to use some thought... ****************** not much to work off of...unless i'm missing your point. if so....pls help Don Dada: true, those teams did use an iso play as a go to play, but even during those times, the other players did more than park @ the 3pt line. they gave jm, kareem, mchale, etc. better options than a stationary shooter. i'm not anti-iso, really. just anti-stationary iso. hey partner: the same (above) applies to all of the teams you named currently. especially the knicks, whom may iso for spree, but have houston running off of picks simultaneously. and i consider the knicks to historically have one of the most predictable offenses. but hey! if the knicks and heat can adjust, i know the rox can too ! ******************************************** for those who disagree with me...at what point in the season do you believe you have to seriously evaluate rudy and his job? or have you thought ahead that far? or are you content with thinking he's the best man for the job until les proves you wrong?
Verse, this is such a weird year with the injuries and almost all new players with either no starting NBA experience or not much playing time period. That said, I'll give him until next year.
Guys : Some of you bring up good points , some of you have weaker arguments but up to a certain extend they are correct , the main thing with the way we are running things is that no matter what we do we obviouly are not finishing up games , our experience or lack there off is showing in close games , the Toronto game a PERFECT example of such . Rudy T. may implement the plan but it is up to the players to execute , you can't blame the coach for that ! unfortunately due to our lack of experience the decision making is not good as of yet , that is why this period the rockets are going through is trial by tribulation if you will , we will eventually progress to that next level but as to a timeframe ? we have to wait and see on that one . One question to ask.... 15 to 20 games ago could we have kept up w/the raptors like we did and be in a position to win like we were in the last 2 min. ? if the answer is NO then we know we have made some progress and I do feel we have made great progress despite the unlucky turn of events (loosing CB) . Rudy T. is not the looser some of you make him sound to be , he is used to winning and wants to win so bad but we do need some help, this team needs some veteran help so bad just to bring cool heads to the floor when crunchtime arrives and that is why I can't wait till Hakeem returns because I believe that when he gets back in playing shape we are going to be much better , just wait and see !!!! all those fire Rudy T. chants will dissapear and I will be a very happy person.
3pointer, For the most part I have to agree with you. It doesn't really matter in particular who coaches this team right now because this team isn't going anywhere anyway. However, this situation does need to be addressed because it's going to effect our decisions on the draft. This is basically how I see Rudy's mind working. I think he thinks that if he gets Dream back and drafts another big man who is capable of scoring in the low post then he will revert back to the post based offense. It's perfectly logical, it's how he's always done it. Unfortunately, it may not fit the particular talent we have. However, there is no one in the organization who is prepared to make a competent decision on this. Rudy? We obviously know that he stands with the post offense (with some variation). Carroll Dawson? He is a Rudy guy. Les Alexander? What in the heck does he know about basketball? So, it almost comes down to a keep Rudy and the gang and hope they can figure it out or basically fire everyone. The former is an option, but is it the best option? The latter is also a bad option because everyone acknowledges Rudy's ability to assess talent, but the question is whether he will have the ability to find the kind of talent that the next coach wants. Plus, Les Alexander has never had to make a major hiring decision. Will he know enough to bring in the right guy? ------------------ Rockets When? Rockets When?
Nolen... Wow. Thanks. It really makes me glad to see a response like that. But I think it might make people lash out at me, like I think i'm more knowledgeable than them. I really just want to talk basketball. And I think Clutch has the best bbs around. I like to talk about plays and player reactions. I love this game; I got my season tickets and many empty seats to choose from. I'm not wasting this season. I see a lot of playbook changes. This theory that we have a stale coach; i just don't see it. When I see that talk, I know those people aren't going to listen to anyone who doesn't have facts to back them. I'll get in their face with the facts, but it's more to get them to come back with solutions or offer something other than gripe. Verse... Yes I was backseat driving...I did mention that though. The bold letters was due to the fact that my nose was red from a fun night. notice the post time. And yes, I did see the Oakley plays in the 1st quarter. Thanks for reminding me and us. I'm not quit sure if those where started with a Carter low post iso though. But indeed, it should have shown us that Oakley could not be left open at the end. Caveman ugh...where do I start. Did I really come off as a stat person who only looks at percentages? I love this game too much to rely heavily on stats. I'm keeping the ISO stat because I'm trying to see why Rudy uses it so much. I'll offer three observances to shed some light on your theories, 1. Francis was being double-teamed everytime he touched the ball like I've not seen a PG be treated in the NBA in quite awhile. There wasn't even any time for a pick. One time I saw two players chase him from one wing to the other. The Raptor game plan was unlike one Francis has seen to date. He did not respond well. In the 4th Quarter with about 4:50 to play Rudy took him out cause he a very poor fastbreak decision on what should have been standard Francis instinct. He was coming down the middle with an wingman to his left (I don't recall who), but Oakley was in the lane (you know, the man that pushed Francis hard to the floor in the 1st quarter the first time stevie tried to jump in his face). Well this time, Oakley commits, and chooses the wingman, and Francis hesitated and did not sky for the slam. He had it!!! He recoiled though. Rudy saw that (i was in row 5 by the 4th q), and pointed to Drew w/o hesitation before Francis could even get out from under the basket. I know...you have to stick with your winners. I agree. But this was different. Francis was not responding well to the obnoxious double-teaming. And it would have happened in the end as well...I guarantee it. Francis was not going to get a scoring opportunity Caveman! Besides, you were simply offering another ISO play by calling for Francis low post. Caveman, I simply have not heard play #1 out of you aside from your blanket request for the pick-n-roll, like that always works no matter whether they trap or not. I'll drop the percentage talk. Give me something back Caveman, with some meat, or shut-up. There. That's one-on-one bbs-ball. 2. Here's something constructive for you to look at tonight and in January. My prediction is the tape of the Raptor defense on Francis is going to spread through the league quickly. Francis and Rudy are going to face this problem over and over until Dream gets back. Caveman, watch to see if Rudy and Francis come up with solutions to get Stevie back into the game. The Raptors took him out of the game using a risky D that pretty much is a slap in the face to our ability to score down low. Rudy won't let that D work much longer. 3. About your ability to call an iso. That puts you up there with pretty much every winning coach in this league. Lets do the tally. Help me out here. The questions is: What winning NBA teams go to high % ISO plays in the last 2 minutes nearly exclusively: 1. Miami (definitely) 2. Knicks (definitely) 3. Indiana 4. Raptors (based on Tues) 5. Portland (favors Wallace lately) 6. LA (not sure this year) 7. Seattle 8. Sacremento (based on last yr playoffs i watched) 9. Phoenix (if you can't stop Kidd that day) Utah doesn't, although they do basically one play with 51 options (ugh). San Antonio seems to have both a high post and a low post play for Duncan. I'm not going to call that an ISO. Caveman...the winning teams are the ones that have a superstar to iso in the end. And most of them do a very predictable play. Rudy is trying to create a game-winner out of Mobley, like Vernon was for us.
verse let me add a disclaimer to everything i've said to date. I was a Rudy-basher for the past three years. I did not think he did a good job with 2-3 superstars on a team. I also did not get to see many games, so I pretty much followed them through papers. This year I'm seeing many more games, and Rudy is not coaching superstars. I see a difference. I can't bash him anymore. I'm having a lot of fun watching his playbook expand as the practice time increases. And, I'm having a lot of fun watching Mobley. I believe this man has star potential. He is getting star treatment from the opposing defenses. He is extremely quick. And has surprising court vision. What an rapidly improving player he is. Yes. I don't want to see no movement from the other four players. But, we are seeing a lot of movement. I certainly demand cutters. I agree. I just say, keep watching.
When sitcoms start repeating the same topic week after week after week, its time to pull the plug on them. That is exactly what this thread is...a tiring, repetitive, overdrawn, over-analyzed, topic that somehow keeps coming up and people keep replying to. And that includes my reply just now. ------------------ Live Rocketball. Breathe Rocketball. Die with Rocketball.
