they beat us fair in game 7 at Toyota Center, I was more pissed at the Rockets losing on the home court. apparently Les was pissed too that's why we don't have JVG anymore. as the matter of fact, who's left from that team? just Yao.
You cannot separate hating the Jazz and being a Rocket's fan. Impossible. That's like trying to separate Sarah Palin and stupidity.
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply, this helps. I agree about the fans, but I don't about Sloan. He's an old school tough coach. I have much less of a problem with him than I do with Hollywood coaches like Riley or Phillip. Their fans blow. No doubt. But I think my point at the end of the day is: A decent rivalry is based on more legit gripes than we have with Utah. They don't even hate us back. They're dorks. There's no geography. What little history there is favors US. They're not winning a ring anytime soon. They flop, but so does everyone else, particularly the Mavs. Houston does not know how to have a rivalry. Rivalries have to be two-wyas, first of all. Does Utah circle games against the Rockets on their calendars? I can not imagine. I dont think a rivalry is based on "they suck." i think it is based on "they have taken something of value from us and we want it back." Giants v. Dodgers. Steelers v. Cowboys. Celtics v. Lakers. Etc. I dont think Houston has a rivalry of that caliber, and I think we're making this one up. The Steelers and Oilers in the 70's were as much as I can recall. That was a rivalry. When the Rockets won the championships in the 1990s, the real rivalry, the one that should have lasted, should have been Phoenix. They were ass biting mosquitos. Danny Ainge throwing the ball at Mario's head, Kiss of Death, Johnson and Hakeem, 3-1 deficits, 'Barkley talking trash, the existence of A.C. Green. But what did we do? We traded for their best player. Rivalry squelched. Since no one other than meh put any actual thought into determining the justification for the tepid rivalry, I will try myself. Here goes: The Rockets were not winning anything of substance in the 2000s. Possibly a few loose balls here and there, we make it to the second round. Maybe we get magically, historically lucky and get to the WCF. But I don't think we're all dying to avenge the destiny of the Rafer Alston era Rockets. Those first round exits do not justify the level of hate the Jazz get here. The only real team of the 2000s to take anything from us were the Mavs. That Finley call was garbage. The Bob Sura Rockets - all one year of them - were a team to root for. They had a good vibe, and they felt like a 'team'. But the Jazz never beat those guys. the Mavs did. The only real thing the Jazz have successfully taken from us is Game 6 of the 1997 WCF. That season was the make or break for the Charles Barkley era. Basically, if someone believed it was smart to release Kenny Smith and trade Horry, Cassell, Chucky for an aging superstar, and go 'all in' to beat the Sonics but take our chances with Utah (which we did), then that season is critical. The Stockton buzzer beater robbed us of something you thought was ours - another Championship or finals appearance, that would have justified the steep descent which followed. That shot is a killer. If not, and you were a never a fully vested in the short term and long term wisdom of that strategy (keep in mind, we could have traded Horry and / or Cassell for young talent as well, that was the zenith of their trade value...), then I think Stockton's shot is not a mortal wound. It sucked. But we patching the backcourt, and playing with the same fire that worked in 1995 (Drexler). But it is all about Barkley. I never liked that trade, was more anxious than confident watching the Barkley Rockets, and did not feel we were certainly the better team when we played the Jazz that year. We gave them a good fight. Maloney did what he could. But they did not win because Malone got away with a foul on the pick. They won because we were a flawed team. Again, it sucked. But it does not feel like theft to those of us skeptical of picking up Barkley. An aging superstar. An aging superstar who we had considered a rival months before.
Some of those were actually funny. Dikembe and social security, Rafer and bricking, Bonzi thinking about donuts. But I just can't imagine how delusional a Jazz fan has to be to call out another team for whining and flopping.
That's a nice double standard there. Do you really think the Steelers were circling the Oilers on their calendars? When, exactly, did the Oilers beat the Steelers and go on to win something? You're saying the Jazz can't count as a rival because all the times they've beaten us (the last four times we played in the playoffs), they've fallen short of a title. Well, the Oilers never won a Super Bowl, so how are they a legitimate rival of Steelers? It wasn't going to take historical luck for the Rockets to at least get to the WCF in 2007. The Mavs choked in the first round that year, leaving the winner of the Houston/Utah series with a relatively easy opponent in GS in the second round. We also matched up pretty well with San Antonio, meaning a Finals appearance, while still unlikely, would not have been totally out of the question.
You might be right on the Steelers thing actually. It's a childhood memory. But champions develop more rivals. The Jazz are champions of zilch. SFR - Can you think of a better Houston rivalry for comparative purposes? I draw a blank. I am looking for a team the whole city hates / hated other than Utah. I think the Jazz is really more of a CF.net meme than a Houston thing. Like, maybe it started because of Clutch hating the Jazz. Now that I am fine with. That would be a reasonable explanation. I disagree on the 2007 Rockets. I don't think we were going anywhere. I thought that was a mediocre team with a weird vibe. It's my view. But that's helpful too, actually - if you 'believed' in the 2007 team, I could see hating the Jazz. It's not that I didn't root for the 1997 rockets or the 2007 rockets or care or whatever. But they dont sting so much. The losses that wear off slowly - or not at all - are the ones where you feel like a destiny was cut short. I feel like that about the mid-80s rockets, destroyed by the drug offenses to Lucas Llyod and Wiggins. And Sampson's injuries. It's not that none of the losses hurt, but none of the Jazz losses really endure to me.
actually, southern utah is one of the most beautiful places in the world. arches, canyonlands, bryce, zion national parks. however, while there i was cognizant of the fact that i was in jazz-land and kept my guard up around utahans and their cheap-shot tactics. while i love southern utah, i will never go to salt lake city and if i had to i would wear a cup to protect my junk. DEATH TO THE UTAH JAZZ!!! I WILL ALWAYS HATE THEM...FOREVER AND EVER!!!
I don't hate many things, but I do hate the Jazz. I have since I was a child and I will till' I'm in the ground.
nice to see you posting CBFC. But you're arguing reason over passion. Logic over emotion. You're pulling stats to show that Chuckie Brown was merely a role player who couldn't stay on one team In short -- you've lost your way. Some things just are. Fanatical almost. We don't need to stinkin' reasons. It's OK if they don't hate the Rockets back. When did their opinion matter anyways? There's plenty of hate for the Mav's too. But that doesn't absolve the Jazz.
I can't think of a better Houston rivalry, but that's because the Rockets are the only Houston team that's really won anything (I don't really count WNBA or MLS). I think the Jazz are probably the biggest rival for the Rockets because of all the times we've played them in the playoffs (seven!). The only team I'm aware of us matching up against more times is the Lakers, but that's really too one-sided to be a true rivalry (I still hate them). My hatred of the Jazz has absolutely nothing to do with Clutch or this website. I hated the Jazz before I had ever used the internet. I hate them even when we were beating them. As for the 2007 Rockets, whether or not they were mediocre, they would have been the favorites in round two if they could have just grabbed a freaking rebound in game 7 against Utah. It certainly would not have taken a historical amount of luck to win against an eight seeded team. Even if we lost in the conference finals to SA, that's still would have been the best season for the Rockets in a decade.
Good post. I hear you. But sometimes emotion needs a sit-down. Look, we have all of this hate. Quality, quality hate. It's a robust pile. I just want to make sure we are using it in the right way. Could we better direct it? They're Just Not That Into Us. Why do we waste our photoshops? Our insults? Our tired internet meme pics? Maybe I am longing for a communal hatred that only exists in fairytales. But isn't there more to hate? Is this all there is? I feel... empty. Maybe you're right, maybe you dont have to have a Soul Mate of Hate. You can hate Utah AND Dallas. But i look at Dallas and see... I see something. It's intangible. It is so awful. I am a romantic. I think Dallas has that special something. Dirk yelling at his own team. Cuban being Cuban. The fact that they are in Dallas. So close to us, living in such a ****hole. I swoon thinking about them! The hate sweeps me off of my feet!. How can we fully embrace them when we cling to hating the Jazz? If we would just get over Utah, maybe we could fully accept the Mavericks. A hate honeymooon, if you will.
I still have nightmares about getting a freaking rebound at the end of that game. The Jazz had like 6 offensive rebounds in the final 2 or 3 minutes. I was watching at this upscale bar for a friend's bday party with all these hot women around when that happened and I ended up spending the rest of the night sulking in the corner with a beer in my hand. It was a blown opportunity in many ways that night...
Just conjure up an image of Karl Malone hacking Akeem with that little hand slap thing he did. Over and over. Stockton flopping. Over and over. The hate can return CBFC. Open your heart to it. Don't let it go. It sustains us. There's plenty of hate to go around to the Mavs, Spurs, Lakers, and Sonics. Yes, the Sonics.
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