Heck no! That has got to be the dumbest trade proposal EVER. THE GUY DOES NOT PLAY ANY DEFENSE, HAS TO SHOOT TO BE EFFECTIVE AND HAS A BAD ATTITUDE. I think I am going to throw up. Moochie all of a sudden looks pretty good!
I agree with pippendagimp when he says that Steve (and to a lesser extent, Cuttino) has the attitude that if the Rockets win, it will be by his hand. I don't think he's necessarily looking to pad his stats, but he does want to be the "hero" all the time. Ironically, he reminds me of Pippen, who sat out the final minutes of the Bulls game where Kukoch was told by Jackson to take the final shot. The problem with this is that sometimes it just isn't his night to be the hero. When Steve's having one of those nights when his shots aren't falling (it happens to every player), he needs to find the persons who have mismatches in their favor or who are hitting their shots. Rice has taken his fair share of criticism here, but against Atlanta, he was posting up and scoring at will on Ira Newble. Steve should have taken advantage of this and fed Rice the ball in the post in the 4th quarter. Did this happen? Of course not - the Rockets never feed the hot hand unless it's Steve or Cuttino. Against some defenses, you could maybe argue that repeatedly posting up Rice isn't a great idea, but Atlanta? Not only was it working against them, but they're a piss-poor defensive team. Getting back to Steve, I read an article that detailed how Kidd not only looks for the pass, but has learned what types of passes work best for each player (for example, Kenyon Martin likes alley-oop passes above his head while Richard Jefferson prefers the passes to be directed at his torso). We used to give alot of grief to Cato for dropping passes, but I always thought his butter-fingers were as much because Steve would direct the passes at his crotch. A good PG sets up his teammates the way that allows them to be most effective - Steve, however, seems to pass the ball when players are in the worst position for the ball. Actually, he usally passes the ball in desperation when he simply has nowhere to go. Steve's faults are also magnified by the presence of both Cuttino and Moochie. These guys have the same type of game (scoring off the dribble) and have been all too prone to breaking down plays in order to massage the ball. In these situations, a coach would normally put in someone who can stick to the game plan. unfortunately, Rudy has nobody with the skills and authority to pull this off. We've talked about Brent Barry, but I think a true meat-and-potatoes PG like Avery johnson would also help team efficiency. Not only would he calm down the offense, but he'd also give Steve an earful for his stupid mistakes. I want Steve to stick with this team, but he has got to learn that he can't be Superman every night. He needs to make the smart pass, not the desperation one. He needs to be ready to run all the time, not just once or twice a game (as someone said, our forwards are all rebounding well, and Posey makes us even better in that area). And he needs to stop trying to beat everyone himself - he's never going to win that way.
Listen, there's no doubt, Steve's the better player right now. No team in the league would not trade their PG for Francis right now. Possibly New Jersey, but I doubt they'd turn down a 7 years locked up Steve Francis for Kidd, who may very well leave this summer. Brent Barry is a very good idea, but I would NEVER trade Mobley for Barry. Maybe if it looked like this: Mobley Moochie for Barry Kenny Anderson 2nd round pick That deal would be just fine with me. But it's absolutely beyond me why the Sonics would open up the 2-spot "for Mason" only to acquire Mobley? Our athleticism would suffer a lot with Barry, Rice and Ming all in the starting line-up though.
Easier said than done. I think Stevie may be one of those who 'sees' where the miss will be headed while the ball's in the air. His rebounds seem to come from a ways out in front of the rim or to the side and almost under the basket, obviously, past where the big men are busy wrestling. How do you tell someone not to move into position for a rebound that they 'see' coming, that they 'know' their big-men are not in position to get on the fly? And FWIW, 1 in 3 of his rebounds are offensive. Secondly, regarding D, how come we rank so high in defense if our PG sucks so bad at it?
Well, excuse me for my tone. I have in this thread already discussed (twice) why the Clippers suck that has everything to do with chemsitry and organizational failures and yet people continue to bring up their talent. That's true. I don't know. However, as unfair as my statement was, yours was equally unfair implying that Miller led the US to their demise when everything about that team was a disaster. Im not saying Steve Francis is a bad player. However, he is not a good point guard. The statistics bear that that out. Francis is 25th in assists per 48 minutes played, attempts more shots than any PG in the league (except Payton who shoots a higher %, and has more assists), and has one of the worst Assist/TO ratios. Plus his defense just isn't that good. Unless your teamed up with Shaq or Kobe, or have #23 at your disposal, a good PG is imperative to get to the next level.
This thread (especially the opening post) will look silly when we make the playoffs. It's in vogue to piss on Steve right now, that's just the way it is.
I think one of Steve's weaknesses as a point guard is his inability to make a good basic inlet pass into the frontcourt. When Mark Jackson was cut by the Nuggets I wondered if it would be a good idea for the Rockets to pick him up. I thought he might be too slow for the team but now I wish that the organization had picked him.
I've never seen Steve sit out because the final play wasn't drawn for him. I remember Steve asking to be taken out of the game his rookie year when he was a couple of assists away from a triple double. He just didn't care. I'm gonna come under fire for this, but I think Cuttino is the stat padder on this team. What was it, one of Posey's first game, Rockets up big with 4 minutes left. Guess who was the only starter still out there, still jacking up shots? Mobley.
I disagree completely. Most of Steve's rebounds come when there is someone already there - I see Steve fighting his own teammates for rebounds all the time. Plus, there are plenty of times when I see Steve hanging around around the 3-point line waiting for the ball when someone has the rebound. This is unacceptable - he should be at least at the half-court line. Obviously I can't argue with the offensive stat but to argue that he's "seeing" the ball (when he clearly can never see his open teammates) seems suspect to me. As far as D, most teams' first option isn't their PG (although it may seem that way when they play us) so Steve's defensive inadequancies are less exposed. His teammates, who are not as defensively deficient, are able to at least contain their men. However, as you've probably notice, opposing PGs are pretty much able to penetrate and score at will. This is Steve's fault - plain and simple. Steve won't sit out, but he will break down a play to ensure he has the ball. Either way, he hurts the team. But I agree it's not about stats - it's about him being the hero.
Who exactly was our passing-genius PG when we won those 2 championships? Oh, yeah, I forgot. We passed the ball in to our center, and he had the brains and talent to handle the distribution. Too bad we can't try that again.
I think we can - with Steve Francis and with Cuttino Mobley. They will just have to get it into their heads. And we can actually mix it up better than when only our frontcourt (Dream) was great. We have the potential for a great frontcourt AND a great backcourt.
I would cry for a week if we traded Francis for Miller. Because I have seen Miller play this whole year with the Clippers and his stats just don't reflect his game. Yes he does look really good on paper but watch him play first. I'm not saying he isn't a good PG but he's not a true leader if that's what we are looking for and he's not going to win you more close games on his decision making skills. He's not the only player to get burned by that little Earl Boykins. I think Miller will be fine with the Clippers but he's not the Great PG that people make him out to be. Yes the Clippers will need time to adjust but even when they do Miller isn't the factoring player that is going to win them games, Odom is the difference once that happens. Miller is a piece to a puzzle but francis is the puzzle. Miller can complete a game but Francis can be the game. I'm saying Francis might not be a good PG but we need him to win, Miller can help only if we have a superstar to win it. And Yao is not yet ready to carry this team alone.
Why is there even discussion about trading Francis or Mobley? Doc said pretty clearly in his first post Doesn't sound to me like there will be any major trades, just some redefining of roles on the team and maybe a few small roster tweaks. There's no need to get an Andre Miller or Damon Stoudemire or any other star point that racks up 10 apg. A steady role player point guard that doesn't dominate the ball or make stupid mistakes, and can play solid d would be ideal. A veteran point guard like Derek Fisher or Charlie Ward would fit this role. Fisher, in particular knows how to play with a great center and 2 guard. While these guys probably won't win the game for you, they won't lose the game for you either. And most importantly it's not gonna cost you Francis, Ming, Mobley, or Griffin to get them.
Thank you, I was wondering if anybody else realized this. We have a great passing center yet people want to tear this team apart to get another PG. Yao Ming is a rookie, he is still learning the game, once he learns THEN we will be able to exclusively go to him and the offense will run through him. Until then you'll have games like the Atlanta game where the offense is stagnant because he's struggling. And the reason the Rocks couldn't get anything else going was because EVERYBODY practically had an offnight. I mean people rip Francis and says he isn't a PG. They rip Mobley for padding stats, they rip this guy, they rip this guy, last I checked the Rockets were on pace to make the playoffs with a rookie center, a 2nd year PG and a ridiculously young bench. People want to talk leadership and get Andre Miller, you think Miller is a leader? The other night during the Sonics/Clippers game a fight broke out, instead of "the leader" Andre Miller calming things down he walked to the other side of the court to get away from it. Little things like that stick out because the PG's job is to keep things undercontrol. There's a reason why the Rockets are winning despite injuries and the Clippers aren't. If Francis is so stupid as a basketball player why is he holding together a team that might not be as talented as the Clippers? <b>Steve won't sit out, but he will break down a play to ensure he has the ball. Either way, he hurts the team. But I agree it's not about stats - it's about him being the hero.</b> When has Francis broke down a play to ensure he got the ball? If you're talking Francis take the ball and going to the basket late, well a lot of PGs do that, Baron Davis, Andre Miller, even Jason Kidd did it alot, in fact Davis and Kidd did it alot in the playoffs.
To me, it just more of the intangibles. For instance, let's say Steve gets 7 rebounds. We all say how awesome that is. Now, when Ming gets 15+, that means that Steve didn't get those boards, however, he is STILL down there trying for the board. To me, that's 15+ chances of running a break that will never exist because our PG is underneath their basket. Sometimes, we need him to get boards - I understand that. But when you have an outlet passer like Yao or even Cato and EG, let them get the board and throw it to you at half court and let's utilize our speed with Posey, Steve, and Cat. We probably have as much team speed as anyone in the game. We probably fastbreak less than anyone in the league. Is this Steve's fault? I don't know... All I'm saying is some people have it and some people don't. Winning does not decide whether or not someone has 'it' with 'it' being basketball smarts. Brent Barry has it, Ben Wallace has it, Robert Horry has it, Kobe has it, Yao Ming has it, Garnett has it, Kidd has it, Vlade has it, Bibby has it, Nash has it, etc.. Vince doesn't have it, Cat doesn't have it, Glenn Robinson doesn't have it, Rasheed doesn't have it, Antoine Walker doesn't have it, etc... Again, this is just my observation and these are just my opinions. I still believe that Steve could have it. However, I don't believe Jason Kidd is JK if he's the shooting guard on Seattle. Why? He's a point but they'd be relying on him to be a scorer. Steve's a scorer who's running the point. As for being envogue with bashing Steve? Uhh... The Rockets are bigger than Yao, Steve, and Dream. That is why you state your insight regarding the TEAM. If you're not looking for answers on how to better yourself, you're regressing.
That should say the Rockets are on pace to make the playoffs with a 2nd year PF. But again, Francis and Mobley are supposed to be these stupid guards that we can't win with YET the Rockets are keeping pace with EVERYBODY in the West aside from Sacramento and Dallas.
