I wish I could.... The entire TEAM needs to play better and play as a TEAM... Right now they are all individuals when they get on the floor... That will not work.. T_Man
Yep that and stats.... Some people feel that if Harden scores 30 he is not the problem... The thing is how many shots did he take to get that 30? How many points did he allow his many to get? A superstar finds ways to help his team win... Not just worry about his own personal stats... Sometime that means scoring less, concentrating more on defense and hustle plays... It's not about you... It's about the TEAM T_Man
Case in point last night. Harden had a pretty good game shooting 6/10. People were saying he is not the problem But people forget he had 5 turnovers resulting in 14 POINTS to the Spurs in the immediate possession resulting from the TO's. Box score doesn't tell you that. He let Danny Green scoring 7 PPG at 36% FG% and 30% 3 PT % before last night go off on him
Harden had a phenomenal season... I wish he had decided to learn and grow on that experience - rather than relying on it as justification to regress further into the weaker aspects of his game... point being anybody that wants to say "Harden got us to the WCF" is disrespecting the TEAM play of last year - of which Harden was the primary contributor - but not the all inclusive reason... On a sidenote - Remeber when Harden, Parsons and Lin had that whole pregame routine? That was a nice teambuilding thing... now its cornerstones and role players... well, if you're gonna talk the talk - you better be ready to walk the walk...
Convenient that when we were winning it was team play and when we are losing its on Harden. Harden was the biggest reason we got where we got last season. Not the only reason, but the biggest by far. Again the hate for Harden for non basketball reasons is real. If you looked at the totality of his time here and not a small sampling, then trading him wouldn't even be a consideration. But a weird hatred for the guy combined with otherworldly knee jerking has led us here. Clutchfans. Where amazing happens.
The time to trade him now... If we wait too long and he continues acting like he is everyone in the league will know Houston is in a losing position. His trade value is as high as it will ever be. Image if every GM thinks he could be cancer.... As of now you'll have the majority of GM's drooling and out bidding each other. He has a couple of years left on a good contract. Lots of teams would take a chance with him. But if everything goes sour here and it becomes known that the Rockets front office and Harden are not happy with each other... They'll offer crap. And who's says he even resigns here unless management kisses his butt. What if he wants "his" coach, "his players", his control.... I don't put it past him. What if he just wants to be in L.A., or somewhere else? We lose him for nothing???? Superstars nowadays wanna call their on shots... You know during free agency everyone will be promising him the moon and the stars. He already seems to do what he wants, play when he wants too or not want too. Or pass to who he wants too. During the Spurs game they got Howard more involved and what did he do..... Had a sub par game. Why?? To show us that he needs to ball to win???? Who knows but it seems it always happens when the team doesn't play the way he thinks they should play. IMO we need to start thing of the future, He is not it. Morey can as well as any GM get plenty for him. Super high picks, young potential talent and players that have their priorities in the right places. Players that can build a foundation for years. Harden is not a player Houston can be proud of, I'm not.
This Post by kjayp summed it all up.. The fact is this... If you want to be considered a Leader and Superstar you have to set the tone by example... Jordan talked noise to his teammates and led by example, but he went out on the court and gave it all that he had... He worked on his weakness which was Team play and trusting his teammates... Hakeem was quite and led by eample, he put everything he had into every freaking game.. Including the ones where he was fasting... He worked on his weakness of trusting his teammates.. If you want to be a superstar you have to take the responsibility when your TEAM loses... Because it's up to you to figure out what do I need to do help my team win... That does not always mean I have to shoot more... In Harden case, it's play better defense and be more of a TEAM first offense and not a me first offense... He has to work on his weakness.. T_Man
Preach on. You have to look past yesterday's box score. There's some things they don't show in box scores, and that's the column that shows if he is helping his team be better, if he's being a leader or if he brings his teammates up or down. Ask yourself, what is up with the rumors that some of his teammates don't like to play with him?
True but Harden played better team ball last season verses this season, especially on defense. He has clearly reverted back to his old ways so far this season. That's why a lot of fans are giving him the business.
But why is the first 30 games of this season proof positive that he doesn't have what it takes? We have 5 times the amount of time here where we would have said he does have what it takes? Why are we so sure right now that he is done working on his weaknesses? Why can't this season be part of the process? How are we so sure that he has already peaked and will do nothing but decline from here? I will save you the time. No one here knows for sure whatsoever. And even if I did somewhat agree with the take some people have on Harden, I would still look at Harden, flaws and all, and see a guy that I want on my team. He is a top 3 offensive talent in the league. By some measures he was the best in the league on that side of the ball last year and by those same measures have him 3rd overall THIS YEAR. There is a place on ANY team for that kind of talent. If we had a guy who was top 1% on defense and bottom 10% on offense there would be a place for that guy too. Probably a pretty damn important place. Same is true with Harden. Look I have friends from all over that I talk basketball with. Not keyboard warriors on message boards, real live people who have allegiances to teams other than Houston and not one of them thinks moving Harden is the way to go. Hell not that these 2 are the be all end all on bball but on a recent Bill Simmons podcast he posed the question to his buddy House about trading Harden and his response.... "No. No! No! No. No! No! Did you count all of those no's?!?!?" This coming from a Washington fan.
this is just a thread for people to vent, for the most part. we won't trade harden unless there is a strong feeling that he won't re-sign here. if this season ends badly and '16-'17 follows suit, then we may have something to talk about.
Cool.. Good discussion.. I think the biggest problem is not so much the number of games, but the direction of where Harden has not progressed in those games.. Howard has digressed and not progressed not just the last 30 games, but I would say since he was not voted the MVP of last year. A player can develop in 3 different directions... 1) The Hakeem and Jordan Growth... This is where you understand your weakness and you start to not only work on your weakness. You also start to work on your drive to win a championship and be the best player in the league. You understand that in order to win a championship you have to give up your "I" mentality and focus on team first. You understand that winning is tied to Defense as well as Offense and that you don't ALWAYS have to be the leading scorer to win. 2) Dominique Wilkins Growth... This where you understand the "Hakeem and Jordan Growth", but you don't fully buy into it.. You work hard to get that championship level, you work on your weakness... But you're not ready to give into the total team aspect; because you're still too concerned with your own personal stats.. So you get into the playoffs, but you can never get to the finals or win it, because you still have that "I" mentality, instead of TEAM first. 3) Adrian Dantley Growth... This is where you KNOW about the "Hakeem and Jordan Growth", but you really could care less about it... It's all about me and no one else... You have confrontations with coaches and teammates.... When things go wrong it's the teams fault or the coach's fault and never seem to recognize it's your fault... On offense you have to have the ball in your hands and you don't want to share the spot light with anyone. You have no desire to work on your weakness, because you don't feel as if you have any. You refuse to accept any criticism or listen to any advice. You will have a Good if not Great offensive career, but you will never ever win a championship and you eventually be isolated by your teammates and traded several times despite the skills that you posses.. Right now, Harden is falling into the "Adrian Dantley Growth" and that is a big problem... VERY BIG PROBLEM... See all the things you mentioned about Harden are the same things people mentioned about Dantley.. Also when it came down to it... Utah wanted Dantley gone... He was traded to Detroit and after 2 years it was the PLAYERS who wanted Dantley gone... They had grown tired of his "ME" attitude... Harden is turning into this same type of player..... T+Man
James Harden will not be traded because it would be impossible for us to trade for a player of equal value. Sure, we could make a risky move and hope some unproven player meets his potential, but we aren't going to be able to trade for anyone who could have an equal impact this season. DeMarcus Cousins is not a player of equal value, by the way.
If we trade Harden, we would need a huge overhaul of talent. Something that came close to this scenario was the Melo trade to NYK. "The deal, approved by league officials Tuesday night, is Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Timofey Mozgov and New York's 2014 first-round pick going to Denver for Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williams, Renaldo Balkman and Anthony Carter. The Timberwolves agreed to take Eddy Curry's expiring contract along with Anthony Randolph from the Knicks and send Corey Brewer to New York -- not Denver, as was discussed in a previous version of the trade. The Wolves get $3 million from the Knicks, which will be used to buy Curry out of the few remaining pay checks on his $11.3 million contract. " The Nuggets came off of a WCF appearance two years before the trade happened, and Denver hasn't been the same since. Usually whoever gets the better player wins the trade. You rarely ever get equal value on a superstar, especially one who's stock is dropping. buy low sell high, do not sell (trade) low. Trading Harden now would be a big mistake as we have no leverage.
The offense needs to flow through harden. Trading your best player is the worst idea because you think he is a ball stopper.. your offense should be adjusted to your best player.
Are there anyone left still defending harden? If you guys can't see Harden has cashed out and don't care about the team, then I pity you harden homers. Rockets needs to trade him for someone of value in return asap.
I still believe. He's been bad this season. I think he comes back better than ever next season. Prove me right James
