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Tim Purpora is Charlie Casserly

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Jrazz, May 26, 2007.

  1. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    i have no idea what offseason posturing was real and what wasn't; maybe pettitte was going back to NY along; maybe he really did give the astros a fair shake... i have no idea.

    but i would prefer pettitte, hirsh and taveras (not to mention the best shot at clemens) to jennings and woody williams. now. then. five years ago. five years from now.... and therefore, would have offered pettitte whatever he supposedly asked for.

    to me, the jennings deal still looks like a trade made out of desperation. he's a decent starter; but by no means great. i know he threw in coors field, but even his road era (4.37 in 511 IP) was fairly pedestrian - i mean, jason hirsh couldn't post a 4.5 ERA?
     
  2. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    They still had no problem taking him out for three games (and sticking Burke in) due to ineffectiveness. Much like they decided to do this year. There's the precedence, and why it shouldn't be so "shocking" to you that they decided to go this route.

    Hirsh was drafted in 2003. Oswalt was drafted in 1997. Hirsh made his debut in late 2006. Oswalt made his debut in early 2001. The extra year for Roy was mainly due to his performance suffering after some lingering shoulder trouble (that magically went away). Oswalt, once he "became Oswalt" (got past the shoulder injuries), proceeded to dominate AA, make ONE START at AAA, and then get the call. Hirsh dominated AA much like Roy did, but still spent most of last year at AAA.

    The bottom line is, they're clearly not the same sort of prospect. Jason Hirsh isn't anywhere close to being as stellar as some of the past Astros top pitching prospects (and other team's current top pitching prospects).

    Have you seen our lineups lately? They involve putting Loretta/Lamb at first base, with Lance still in RF. Either Lance plays there, or Pence plays there (in "your world"), or Lance still occupies 1B while they platoon at 3B. Once again, however, with Pence being able to play CF, they're able to get a lineup to include ALL of these guys.

    You keep on bringing up his post ASB stats... you feel like Willy T has finally "got it" by justiftying his stats. Have you actually watched him this year? Did you think that Sean Berry cured him last August? I saw a guy who was on a very good hitting streak (kept alive by several bunt base hits), but still very much the same hitter (zero plate discipline, no occasional pop).

    He's still very much the same hitter now... just having a good start to the year (while guys like Lance have a bad start to the year). You want to call the election with less than a third of the season played... I'm simply saying let the season play out.

    You still haven't given any suggestions on what the club SHOULD of done after Pettite left, besides the obligatory "they shouldn't have let Pettite go", or the "offer less for Jennings"... (when neither scenario is as simple or plausible... especially if you keep believing that Jason Hirsh was a super-duper top-prospect, and Willy T was the most valuable leadoff hitter the Astros could produce for the next 4 years).
     
    #162 Nick, May 31, 2007
    Last edited: May 31, 2007
  3. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    The organization has doubts on that... that's for damn sure. The guy is starting to give up the long-ball again (like he did when he came up last year). After his decent start to the season, the ERA is now over 5.

    What's especially interesting is how the Cardinals bombed him yesterday, after facing him for the second time this year.

    In any case, he's definitely not the guy who was posting a 2.something ERA at AAA while giving up only 1-2 HR's the entire year. He's got nowhere near the stuff of a Lincecum or Oswalt when he first came up.
     
  4. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    uhm, nick... hirsh ascended to the ML level sooner than roy oswalt; it was properly pointed out previously by major and now again... by you.

    neither here nor there. the point is you initially blasted him for taking so long to be moved up; one of your many points to be shot down.

    yes, and do you know why berkman is having to play RF? not to get lamb and/or loretta's bat in the line-up, but because luke scott has been definitively proving that his 2006 "break-out" was a fluke... which, considering his age and length of minor league tenure, shouldn't be a total shock to us.

    even with taveras in CF and pence in RF, and keeping berkman on 1B, there are plenty of ABs to be had for loretta and lamb between 3B, SS and 2B.

    (sigh........)

    never said that about hirsh or taveras. if pettitte had left my best offer behind and colorado wanted hirsh and taveras, i would have been content to go into the season as is, with hirsh filling a spot in my rotation.

    i think hirsh has the potential to be as good as jennings.
     
  5. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Did he, or did he not need more time at AAA (while both posted similiar AA numbers). What's neither here nor there is the level of prospect they were, and their performance once each has gotten to the big league speaks for itself.

    Luke Scott was also hurt after getting hit in the knee by a pitch during warmups. And there's the "fluke" argument over a similiar stretch as you declare Willy T as "getting it". But once again, bring up his age, his minor league numbers (which were better than Willy T's), etc. Hell, him and Willy were both given up on by the same team. They're even best friends because of it.

    You have said that you think the organization should have gotten more for their best pitching prospect, and a young speedy leadoff hitting CF. You've said that. I'm simply saying that Hirsh, while being this team's most ready pitcher, wasn't on the level of other "best pitching prospects", and Willy isn't that good... he still is the same hitter with the same tendencies that will lead to a signficantly lower OBP when the season is said and done.

    And I find it comical that you're criticizing this team for its off-season, and yet you'd be willing to go into the season with a rotation of Oswalt, Hirsh, Wandy, Sampson, and Albers (since you'd have the hindsight not to sign Woody).

    He certainly isn't right now. He certainly didn't debut as well as Jennings did in 2001. Maybe he'll start "getting it" around the time Willy starts to learn how to work the count, draw walks, and make solid contact.

    Definitely doesn't help the "aging" Oswalt and Berkman too much right now, though.
     

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