Tim Duncan,Jalen Rose, David Robinson are available....

btw I didnt mention Bulls in my reply - happy now?

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The CC.net NBA Sim Board/Homepage

 

I didn't insult you personally, GB, and I don't appreciate you calling me ignorant. Get over yourself.

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I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip that I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.

 

Well in my post that said nothing, I told you how to beat the Lakers.

I guess illiteracy is the case of the poster above.

Zones will make Shaq less effective, Centers that can shoot (the type of player Rudy prefers) will eat Shaq for breakfast.

All you need is a big man with an outside shot and Shaq is in trouble. The reason the Lakers won was b/c the other teams couldn't hit the shot, they choked. Every team that played the Lakers choked when they had the open shot.

You tell me my post said nothing, maybe you should actually read it a couple more times so you can see that our team that's already had 45 wins is adding a potential superstar w/o losing any current players.

The reason I brought up the Magic and the Bulls which you seem to think was out of the blue, was because YOU brought them up first. You gave this little speech about how the Bulls have all of this potential, I tell you to wait till the Bulls actually win more than 30 games. You said the Magic has a lot more upside than the Rockets, I told you that our team was actually better than the Magic.

Damn dude, do you not remember what you type or do you just like to pretend it didn't happen so you can act cool with your "your post said nothing" response.

Teams that can hit the shot in pressure situations can beat the Lakers, the teams that lost to them missed wide open shots, I have faith in Cuttino (who hit a gamewinning shot in his very first game as a Rocket) and company can hit the big shots.


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This post contains no smilies, you must judge my seriousness on your own...

 

Nice Heath, nice. I was just about to say that this team has the potential to be a Milwaukee. A good, aggravatingly good team. Their weakness? No one who can take over games. When they're on...they're almost unstoppable. But when they are not...
(And no inside scoring threat.)

You all are a little better than that because of Stevie...but not Laker good. Among rebuilding teams, I'd take Orlando players over yours and Dallas' too.


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What "Plan" do you keep talking about?

Our hole at Center is just as large as the Laker's hole at PF, or even PG.

We have seven of the most underrated guys in the league:Francis, Mooch, Cuttino, Griffin(Already being hailed by some as a career-zero), Shandon(Had a bad year, Note-Not an Off year, but a bad one, but still played good defense, ran the floor, and rebounded), Mo Taylor(In under 30 minutes per game-13, 6 is not that bad), and Kenny Thomas(In just 25 mpg-7,6)

There's a great chance dream will resign. If he plays like he did post-allstar break, we have a 12, 8 center.

Are those not the tools? 6-8 good players, with another 3-4 role players(Walt, Cato, Langhi, Collier, Bullard, Colson)?

We also have a good 4-7 million dollars after resigning Mooch, Mo, Shandon, and Dream(Early Bird Contracts)to go out and chase a rebounder, and perhaps a backup PF.

They might be. I never said we were the best rebuilding team. And I think we could even beat them. We split the season series 1-1.

And yes, "Hows that for "We have the tools to beat anyone in the league." "

What are you trying to prove? 45-37, that means we won majority of our games, or that we probably beat majority of the rest of the league.

Griffin was the best deal available, only an idiot wouldn't have pulled the trigger on that deal. Every team has a weakness, at this point our's is the C spot. And if Olajuwon is retained, it won't even be that big of a weakness. Not to mention our cap space, which will definitely lure a big man.

His tumble? He "tumbled" all the way to #7. With a draft so big man heavy, teams drafted big men because of their scarcity, leaving the, IMHO, the more talented players, like Griffin, at spots like #7.

You might have been as set as we are...Might have been. But the point is that you aren't. Because your genius GM decided not to take him.

And what the hell has Crawford done that we should laud him for?

I think he will be a solid PG/SG for years to come, but at most a Penny Hardaway(Not Orlando) or Ron Harper.

If you're talking Seton Hall, what he did was impressive.

His College numbers are just as, if not more impressive than Curry's high school numbers.

19, 10, and 5.

Yes, 5 blocked shots a night.

Seton Hall's season wasn't the greatest, but that doesn't nessicarily reflect how good a player is, if that was the case, your former prized jewel Brand would be nothing.

So WHAT!

The Bulls didn't win during the Bird or Magic years.

Could they have won? Maybe, the same way the 93-93/94-95 Houston Rockets could have beaten the 90-93/95-98 Chicago Bulls.

A month and 3/4 is more than enough time to get back to championship level. Not only that but he probably worked on his game before he made his comeback official by stepping foot on the floor(He got some practice in Space Jam)

And again, I never said we would win the title, I said we would be in contention(As in we make the playoffs, are known around the league as a hard team)

For the same reason you keep pointing to the Rockets every time we bring up the Bulls.

It's called comparison. We are both teams that were dominant for the good part of a decade. Your team happened to win more titles, but we have the upper hand now.

And this "plan" you keep mentioning, do the Bulls happen to have on we could take a look at?

Anything more you'd like to add?

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The title will come to ClutchCity once again.

[This message has been edited by vj23k (edited July 05, 2001).]

 

I'm back...




[This message has been edited by gettinbranded (edited July 05, 2001).]

 

Doesn't follow. Centers that can shoot are good defenders?? If they can shoot, thats going to draw Shaq out of the lane so the Lakers lose their defensive ground in the middle? Oh wait...zones...

So the Lakers were benefactors of 15 choke jobs in this years playoffs and who knows how many in last years? Doesn't follow.

Potential...Potential...Potential...

Why is this a positive thing for your club and not for mine? Either the Bulls are looking real good because they added two potential superstars to their team, or Houston is a good team that might get better if one of it's players pans out. Like the Bulls...IF.

Wait until Eddie plays an NBA game before considering yourself improved then. No...wait until he scores 30 or 35 and proves he has it in him everynight and can take over a ballgame before coming within 5 words of Eddie and superstar in a sentance.

You lied. How many all-stars are on your team?

It will take much more than a few Cuttino jumpers to beat the Lakers and get into the Finals.

Don't get me wrong---you built a nice squad there. You're just hyping it up waaaaaay too much.

Back to work. V...you're next.

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[This message has been edited by gettinbranded (edited July 05, 2001).]

 

The Rockets never went through the Bulls, but when did the Bulls go through the Rockets? When did the center-less Bulls (sorry Luc) ever have to face the Hakeem Olajuwon-led Rockets in the Finals? Not once, because our Achilles' heel was the Sonics. During the season, the Rockets pounded the Bulls, winning 83 percent of their matchups until 96!

Also, let's face the facts. The east has been the weaker conference for the last decade! I bet the Bulls would have found a lot more matchup problems in the west, rather than in the east. Had the Bulls been in the west, I guarantee that there would have been no 70+ win season.

You can put that asterisk on the Rockets' titles, but I can also do that for all of the Bulls' titles.

Now, about the rebuilding. Let's see, the Bulls have had an extra year of rebuilding, and have reached the impressive mark of 15 wins in their third year. The Rockets had 30 more than that in a much tougher conference. By giving up absolutely nothing, the Rockets have gained a future star, possibly superstar. They already have two stars at the 1 and 2 spots, which are the toughest positions to fill. They will either have a superstar Power Forward in Webber, or a really solid forward in Mo. And who knows, with the zone coming into effect, Cato may turn out to be a servicable center.

Let's compare starters:

Crawford vs Francis- Ha ha ha, yeah, what a close call. Crawford didn't average double digit points on a terrible team in a weak conference, while Francis was the Rookie of the Year and really started improving last season. 20-7-7, in only his second year. How is "no shot" Crawford going to compare to this? Advantage- Rockets

Mercer vs Mobley- This might be a good matchup for the Bulls if you go by the name of Roy D. Elton, or Corey Benjamin. Otherwise, there is no comparison. Mobley averaged about 7 more points, on a better team, while shooting better. Not even close.
Advantage- Rockets

Fizer vs Griffin- All I know is that Fizer is not a small forward, and is playing out of position. He did nothing last year on a horrific team. Griffin may be a future superstar, and could bring stats like 14-9-3 next season, while providing great D. Andvantage- Rockets

Chandler vs Taylor- A high schooler versus a solid NBA player. Taylor is capable of erupting for large scoring games at any time. He is very dependable, and always starts games well. His rebouding is poor, but he is only 23. Still, it is hard to tell how good Chandler will be. Wash, maybe slight advantage Rockets.

Chandler vs Webber- This possible matchup is hilariously in favor of the Rockets.

Curry vs Cato- I wouldn't be surprised if they both averaged 8-6 next year. Wash for now, although Curry will one day be better. By then, the Rockets will likely have a decent center.

Curry vs Hakeem- Hakeem could be around a couple more seasons. If that is the case, then he will provide veteran leadership and help the young Rockets learn how to win in this league. Curry and the Bulls have no veteran to teach them the ropes. Massive edge Rockets.

Bench:

Rockets: Norris, Anderson (?), Thomas, Williams, Morris (could be a great player) and maybe Cato.

Bulls- Dalibor Bagaric, Ron Artest, Corey Benjamin, Bryce Drew, Steve Goodrich, A.J. Guyton, Trenton Hassell, Fred Hoiberg etc.

Oh yeah, the Bulls are just overflowing with potential with that bunch.

Don't take my word for it, just look at the records again. The Rockets got thirty more wins than the Bulls in a much tougher conference. That is such a hilariously large advantage for the Rockets, I don't know why I am bothering to compare the teams.

Before I wrap this up, I just want to argue your little Mavs and Magic comparison.

Alright, the Mavs are further along than the Rockets, as they won 53 and got playoff experience last year. Still, the Rockets tied the series with them, and if you compare talent, I'd say the Rockets are even, just less experienced. The Mavs had a one year edge in rebuilding, as they added Nowitski and Nash in the lockout season, while the Rockets were still trying for that title.

The Magic comparison is easily in the Rockets' favor. They won more games than the Magic in a tougher conference, and split the season series. The Rockets would have made the playoffs above the Magic in the east, and judging by their winning percentage against the east, they would probably have had the second seed, behind only Philly.

Francis is better than the average Armstrong.

McGrady has a decent edge on Mobley, but I wouldn't be surprised if Cuttino could average 27 in a weak conference as well.

Grant Hill and Eddie Griffin is a pretty even matchup. The Grant Hill of old would have had the edge, but how do we know that he will ever play at such a high level again?

Antonio Davis has a slight edge over Mo, but he also plays in the land of few big men. Add Webber to the Rockets, and it would be a big Houston advantage.

If Hakeem is at center (providing veteran experience), then that position is a big advantage to Houston. Otherwise, Bo Outlaw puts the Magic on top at that position.

Again, just look at wins. The Rockets did much better in a tougher conference.

Let me wrap up by saying that the Bulls will be lucky if they make the playoffs by 2008! Meanwhile, the Rockets could have anything from the second to the seventh spot next year, depending on whether they have Mo or Webber on the roster. Either way, the Rockets will be in the post season. The Bulls will just be watching on TV. After next season, the Rockets will have three stars on their team. That's one more than the Lakers. I also maintain that the Lakers won the title because of perfect chemistry with the role players. The Laker role players are getting old, so who's to say that they will be able to find that chemistry with others at those positions? I think that the Lakers are very beatable, and the Rockets will be right there contending with them within the next few years.

Where will the Bulls be?

At home, watching jealously on TV.

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"I want to be like Olajon." -Sagana Diop has the right idea...

Keep the ???? alive!

 

Doesn't follow. Centers that can shoot are good defenders?? If they can shoot, thats going to draw Shaq out of the lane so the Lakers lose their defensive ground in the middle? Oh wait...zones..."

Okay I'll explain this slowly, if shaq is playing zone defense and camping out in the lane, then a center that can hit the outside shot will just shoot over the zone. Zone defense also helps b/c you can just put a player in front and behind Shaq, which would make it very difficult for him to do anything.

So the Lakers were benefactors of 15 choke jobs in this years playoffs and who knows how many in last years? Doesn't follow.

Missing wide open shots is choking, the Lakers hit their wide open shots. What's so hard to understand about that?

The Lakers benefitted from their opponents being unable to hit the open shot, but the Lakers themselves also hit the clutch shots. It's not like they didn't do anything, they hit the shots, the other teams missed them, you make it sound like I'm saying the Lakers had nothing to do with the championship. They had guys like Robert Horry and Derek Fisher hitting clutch shot after clutch shot, if their opponents had that much icewater in their veins, it would have been a lot more difficult for the Lakers.

Why is this a positive thing for your club and not for mine? Either the Bulls are looking real good because they added two potential superstars to their team, or Houston is a good team that might get better if one of it's players pans out. Like the Bulls...IF.

I'll say this again, the Bulls gave up Elton Brand for their potential, the Rockets gave up 3 average draft picks for their potential. We added our potential star after 45 wins, you're adding your 2 potential stars and losing your proven player to your 15 wins. It's great you got 2 stars, but you lost a 20 and 10 guy for 1 of those stars. We lost nothing for our star. It's great for both teams, hey you got curry and chandler but you lost brand, good for you, the point is we're a lot closer to our final destination than your team. You keep asking why we care about the Bulls, yet you just brought them up again, what's up with that?

Wait until Eddie plays an NBA game before considering yourself improved then. No...wait until he scores 30 or 35 and proves he has it in him everynight and can take over a ballgame before coming within 5 words of Eddie and superstar in a sentance.

I don't see how adding Eddie Griffin to this team will make us worse, but I guess we'll see this season. We all know he's not a superstar now, but he has the potential to become one. He could turn into Robert Horry and just play solid help D at SF and we'd be happy. If you watched Rockets games, you'd see that we lacked interior defense, you'd be a complete idiot if you think Griffin won't provide that. He was 2nd in the nation in shotblocking as just a freshman, he'll provide weakside shotblocking, which help this team a lot. We already have our scorers in Steve and Cuttino, we only need defense from Griffin, worstcase scenario is he becomes Robert Horry and that still won't be that bad since Robert Horry seems to be a nice piece to a championship team.

You lied. How many all-stars are on your team?

Oh I get it, we need all-stars to be a great TEAM, thanks for enlightening us on that. I mean look at all of the all-stars on the Lakers, those 2 all-stars are great, I don't know how they got past the blazers and their all-stars. You're not very bright if you think a team's success depends on the number of all-stars they have.

It will take much more than a few Cuttino jumpers to beat the Lakers and get into the Finals.

I was giving you an example of a player that can hit the pressure shot. There's only 1 or 2 pressure shot situations in a big game. It's the 4th quarter wide open shots that we saw teams miss in the playoffs against the Lakers, they were wide open for those shots and they just missed them. I believe my team can hit those shots, you want to know why? Because my team's done it in the past, we got the Mario Elie's, Sam Cassell's, and Robert Horry's in the past, and I believe that my organization can find those guys now and in the future.

We're not saying we're contenders now, but in 1 or 2 seasons we will be. I don't know why the hell you think we're hyping ourselves up to be world champions next year because we aren't. There's only a few people on this board that say that nonsense, the rest of us that actually watch the Rockets on a regular basis, know the potential is there for great things, just like you think Crawford's about to break out.

It's a good time to be a Rockets fan, we managed to rebuild the team back to a 45 win season in only 2 years, that's impressive.

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This post contains no smilies, you must judge my seriousness on your own...

Have no fear kiddies, the name's changed, but the Mobster is still the same...

 

No way man. The Lakers no longer have holes at PF or PG. Nick Van Exel and Danny Fortson fill those voids quite nicely.

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All hail Fadeaway's Cyberfish -- your 2000-2001 BobFinn* Fantasy Basketball League Champions!

 

We're talking Real NBA Man.

Where those spots are occupied by Horace Grant and Derek Fisher/Ron Harper/Tyronne Lue.

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The title will come to ClutchCity once again.

 

uh, guys, wrong forum

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Who's ya daddy?

 

I didn't say we would win, I said we would be in contention.

We have the tools to beat anyone in the league. We don't have quite the gaping hole we had at SF last season(Griffin might come along slowly, but nevertheless will put up solid starting-SF numbers) and still have cap space to shore up the middle.

PF is still a question, but if Webber decides not to come, we always have Mo Taylor who isn't a dud himself.

At this point, your team has nothing but question marks.

At least last season you always had Brand, a good NBA Power Forward, to fall back on. This season you are stuck with two high-schoolers both of whom have questionable work ethics and haven't proved a thing.

You should be proud, sticking with the Bulls, taking the good with the bad, But there is no reason to take a shot at the Rockets like that.

BTW, who the hell has an off-year?
Off-day, Off-Week;sure.
Off-year;No

You're right we did build a good team, but you're wrong...we did not "wait" for the champs to have an off-year.

MJ retired, had nothing to do with the Rockets.

He even came back to catch the last 1 and 3/4 months and the whole playoffs.

He and Pip took the Bulls to conference finals, where they were handily beaten by a young Magic squad. The Magic then went to the Finals, where they were swept

Swept!

Noone knows what would have happened had MJ never retired to go play baseball, but give the Rockets the credit that they deserved.

They won the title fair in square.

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The title will come to ClutchCity once again.

 

Thats the funniest bit of fan-induced hallucination I've ever witnessed. So now, the double-threepeat Bulls, the +70 win plus Bulls, the team led by one of the greatest basketball players of all times------was a sham????????? The Rockets were the team of the nineties??????? Get real. Listen to yourself. We can do all the IF IF IF's we want. Doesn't change a thing. And I think you'd be hardpressed to find many Rocket fans, who are also bball fans who would agree with you.

Putting bias over reason and common sense makes me not even want to respond to the rest of your post. Bulls and Rockets---no comparison right now. Rockets and Mavs---if Steve and Griff reach their potential, I'll give the Rocks the advantage. But right now--the playoff tested, 4 quality starter Mavs get the nod. Rockets/Magic? I'd take T-Mac over Franchise any day, and if I felt I was a contender I'd take Hill over Griff. Miller and Cat (thats Cuttino's nick, ain't it?) ok...maybe probably Cat. Maybe


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[This message has been edited by gettinbranded (edited July 06, 2001).]

 

Thats a GOOD team...not a great one. It takes great players to win championships. Your hope is in Wink and Griff...not your bench. Benches get you regular season awards...great players win you the bling bling.

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My point is that you can't say "what if the Rockets had played the Bulls in the finals" because the Bulls never played the Rockets in the finals.

The 90s Bulls were one of the greatest teams ever, but the Rockets just about always beat them. They would have done the same in the finals.

Oh, and I'd say that you are the one with hysteria, if you continue to say that

a. The Rockets deserve asterisks on their titles because they never played the Bulls.

b. Krause has something to do with the Bulls' titles.

and

c. The (current) Bulls will be right there with the Rockets in a few years.

Just keep enjoying those Jordan titles while we watch the Rockets develop into a great team.



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Protrolls.com!

"I want to be like Olajon." -Sagana Diop has the right idea...

Keep the ???? alive!

 

Could be...could be...

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[This message has been edited by gettinbranded (edited July 06, 2001).]

 

You just said we can't say "what if". The point is moot if the Rockets couldn't find their way out of the West to play the Bulls. The Sonics or Jazz or whoever were better than the Rockets and the Bulls were better than them.

They won those championship fair and square because they were the best team in the finals at the time...but they never did it against the best team of their time.

Every man on those teams except MJ was acquired by Jerry Krause. That includes the team that went won 55 (57?) games the season after MJ retired for the first time and came within a phantom call of returning to the finals. Nobody knew Jordan was going to be as good as he turned out to be...but he had some serious (underestimated) firepower around him.

We don't even know that the Rockets will "be there"...so lets just wait and see.



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Thanks for the weak response gb, I answered all of your claims and you comeback with the weak "Could be...could be". I have nothing left to say to you, your opinion means nothing to me. Enjoy your 15 win team, I'm sure they'll be getting the bling bling in only a few more decades...

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This post contains no smilies, you must judge my seriousness on your own...

Have no fear kiddies, the name's changed, but the Mobster is still the same...

 

I agreed with most of your argument and said that..whats the big deal.



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